Heroes don't accept the world the way it is. They fight it - An excellent, emotional episode that the develops both the characters and is the real beginning of the apocalypse, well it had already started but at least they know now. 'Eve' till irritates the hell out of me though, too bad 'Hamilton' didn't actually want her to die but just to sign a contract, 'Hamilton' did however have the best entry ever by punching his fist through that security agent making Eve, Lorne and Harmony scream like little piggies. I was also glad they brought back 'Lindsey', his hell dimension was very original and fun, he had his own family but day after day he got his heart-ripped out in the basement. 'Gunn' also did a good thing, he stayed behind because it was the only way for the rest to escape - Stayed behind? But you never leave a... or I guess we do. That's what we do now. My favorite scenes, without a question, were the Wesley/Illyria ones, especially the one on the roof got me a little teared-up. The last scene was also excellent, 'Lindsey' told the gang that the Apocalypse already started and that they are fighting on the wrong side, and that they already lost two soldiers. Another brilliant season 5 episode. ILLYRIA: All I am is what I am. I lived 7 lives at once. I was power and the ecstasy of death. I was god to a god. Now... I I'm trapped... on a roof. Just one roof... in this time and this place, with an unstable human who drinks too much whiskey and called me a Smurf. You don't worship me at all, do you? WESLEY: And you really can't leave. ILLYRIA: I... don't know. And I fear in any other dimension in this form I'd be but prey to those I knew. I reek of humanity. WESLEY: Don't flatter yourself. ILLYRIA: Your world is so small. And yet you box yourselves in rooms even smaller. You shut yourselves inside... in rooms, in routines. WESLEY: There are things worse than walls. Terrible... and beautiful. If we look at them for too long they will burn right through us. Truths we couldn't bear. Not every day. ILLYRIA: We are so weak. WESLEY: Yes. Yes, we are. (9.5 out of 10)
3 Reviews
Heroes don't accept the world the way it is. They fight it
SleepTight66627 May 2007
Warning: Spoilers
The Price Gunn Pays
Samuel-Shovel31 May 2019
Warning: Spoilers
In "Underneath", wanting information on the Senior Partners plans for Angel and company, the gang plus Eve try to find the only man who might be able to give them some details: Lindsey. Gunn is able to figure out in which dimension Lindsey is currently being held: an odd torture suburb dimension where Lindsey is unaware if his past. They are able to spring him from this but Gunn is left behind in his place to atone for what happened to Fred, placing himself in self-banishment.
Lindsey reveals that he doesn't know much but he does know that giving Angel the LA branch if Wolfram & Hart was all just a big distraction so he wouldn't notice THE Apocalypse that was brewing right under his feet, the one to end it all. Meanwhile, a new liason to the Senior Partners shows up to take Eve's place, ending her immortality.
As the episode ends we see Gunn's fate is to be stuck in the same torturous loop that Lindsey was in before him.
Poor Gunn. He's really taken this whole thing with Fred hard. I don't really blame him for what transpired. Everyone seemed to jump on him as a scapegoat (including himself). He's now chastising himself eternally in this new hell dimension.
I didn't mention Wes and Illyria in my plot summary because pretty much nothing happens with them. They have a few philosophical discussions that don't really go anywhere. It's all a bit boring.
Gunn's plight is the real story here. Maybe this self-imposed torture will help the healing process for everyone involved. I hope they toss Lindsey back in when they're done with him though.
Lindsey reveals that he doesn't know much but he does know that giving Angel the LA branch if Wolfram & Hart was all just a big distraction so he wouldn't notice THE Apocalypse that was brewing right under his feet, the one to end it all. Meanwhile, a new liason to the Senior Partners shows up to take Eve's place, ending her immortality.
As the episode ends we see Gunn's fate is to be stuck in the same torturous loop that Lindsey was in before him.
Poor Gunn. He's really taken this whole thing with Fred hard. I don't really blame him for what transpired. Everyone seemed to jump on him as a scapegoat (including himself). He's now chastising himself eternally in this new hell dimension.
I didn't mention Wes and Illyria in my plot summary because pretty much nothing happens with them. They have a few philosophical discussions that don't really go anywhere. It's all a bit boring.
Gunn's plight is the real story here. Maybe this self-imposed torture will help the healing process for everyone involved. I hope they toss Lindsey back in when they're done with him though.
Angel hits the suburbs
Joxerlives25 April 2012
Warning: Spoilers
The Good; All the Lindsey stuff is great and love the appearance of Marcus and everyone's reaction to it. Love the Spike/Angel conference complete with beer.
The Bad; How does Lindsey know Fred and Cordy are dead? Or is he referring to Doyle and Gunn? You can see the perspective gag when Marcus punches through the security guard. The background on the roof set which Wes and Illyria stand on is obviously fake.
Best line; Angel; "Bad things always happen here, Spike" Spike; "Hate to break it to you mate but bad things happen everywhere"
Jeez, how did they get away with that? Lindsey/Gunn have their own personal torture chamber. Spike just picks up the hearts with his bare hands.
Apocalypses: 5 Spike and Angel have a discussion over what qualifies as an apocalypse. Lindsey informs them they're actually living in an apocalypse.
Angel Clichés Subverting the Hollywood cliché; Marcus doesn't want to fight, just to get Eve to sign her contract.
In disguise; 8
DB/JM get's his shirt off; 19, Lorne takes the bullets out of Spike
Cheap Angel; 8
Fang Gang in bondage: Cordy: 5 Angel: 15 Wes: 8 Gunn; 8 Lorne; 6 Fred; 5 Spike; 6
Fang gang knocked out: Cordy: 15 Angel: 20 Wes: 10 Doyle; 1 Gunn; 4 Lorne; 8 Groo; 1 Connor; 1 Faith; 1 Fred; 7 Spike; 5
Kills; Cordy: 5 vamps, 3 demons Angel; 48 vamps, 67 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg Doyle; 1 vamp Wes; 16 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 4 humans, 2 cyborgs Kate; 3 vamps Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans. Gunn; 11 vamps+ 15 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human. Groo; 1 demon Fred; 3 vamps+ 14 demons, 5 zombies Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine Spike; 21 vamps, 12 demons+1 human+one parasite
Fang Gang go evil: Cordy: 3 Angel: 3 Gunn; 1 Wes; 1
Alternate Fang Gang; suburban Gunn Cordy: 4 Angel: 12 Fred; 3 Wes; 1 Gunn; 2 Connor; 1 Lorne; 1
Characters killed: poor WR&H security guard 2265
Recurring characters killed; Eve realises that she's going to die just like Anya in Buffy. 12
Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, Angel, Gunn, Lorne, Wes, Spike
Angel Investigations shot: Spike and Angel Angel: 15 Wes; 2 Spike; 1
Packing heat; not the gang but you've got to love a series with Uzi toting soccer moms! Wes; 13 Doyle; 1 Angel; 4 Gunn; 3 Fred; 5
Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 2 possible, Justine, Fred Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen. Fred; 1 Gunn, 1 possible Wes Groo; 1Cordy Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony
Kinky dinky: Spike talks about 'pounding the neighbours wife'.
Captain Subtext; Angel and Lorne comment on how well dressed Marcus is. Lindsey's wife is very reminiscent of Darla, you wonder if Angel and Spike are thinking that when they open the door. Gunn obviously wants to be punished. Illyria says 'We' are so weak?
Know the face, different character; 7
Parking garages; oh yeah 10,
Guantanamo Bay; Harmony has been told 'No torture' by Angel. Lorne is shocked when Angel reveals he left Gunn behind. The Wrath!
Buffy characters on Angel; 17 Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil, Andrew.
Questions and observations; Spike refers to Knightrider, he shouldn't have teased the Geeks! Spike asks what the collective name for the Angel gang is, we never quite decided, like AI and the Fang Gang personally. It's actually Spike who comes up with the idea of talking to Eve. Harmony in the title sequence, how great, MM in the show right from the pilot, now a regular. They talked about the Lorne Green idea before in Happy Anniverasry. Am I missing something about Wes' joke? The world without shrimp is referenced again, this time the world with it. Eve is the child of the senior partners but doesn't even know who or what they are? But surely Illyria does? Are all the inhabitants in the holding dimension prisoners? Do we ever see Gunn in his suit again? And he's shaved his head. Surely he must wear a suit for court? The partners obviously think a lot of Lindsey, keeping him alive to decide if he'll still be useful. What does 'blocking' mean? It's been 4 months since 'You're welcome'. Gunn actually comes across really well as the family man. Does Marcus represent the WB suits who cancelled Angel?
Marks out of 10; 8/10 for the holding dimension stuff alone
The Bad; How does Lindsey know Fred and Cordy are dead? Or is he referring to Doyle and Gunn? You can see the perspective gag when Marcus punches through the security guard. The background on the roof set which Wes and Illyria stand on is obviously fake.
Best line; Angel; "Bad things always happen here, Spike" Spike; "Hate to break it to you mate but bad things happen everywhere"
Jeez, how did they get away with that? Lindsey/Gunn have their own personal torture chamber. Spike just picks up the hearts with his bare hands.
Apocalypses: 5 Spike and Angel have a discussion over what qualifies as an apocalypse. Lindsey informs them they're actually living in an apocalypse.
Angel Clichés Subverting the Hollywood cliché; Marcus doesn't want to fight, just to get Eve to sign her contract.
In disguise; 8
DB/JM get's his shirt off; 19, Lorne takes the bullets out of Spike
Cheap Angel; 8
Fang Gang in bondage: Cordy: 5 Angel: 15 Wes: 8 Gunn; 8 Lorne; 6 Fred; 5 Spike; 6
Fang gang knocked out: Cordy: 15 Angel: 20 Wes: 10 Doyle; 1 Gunn; 4 Lorne; 8 Groo; 1 Connor; 1 Faith; 1 Fred; 7 Spike; 5
Kills; Cordy: 5 vamps, 3 demons Angel; 48 vamps, 67 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg Doyle; 1 vamp Wes; 16 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 4 humans, 2 cyborgs Kate; 3 vamps Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans. Gunn; 11 vamps+ 15 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human. Groo; 1 demon Fred; 3 vamps+ 14 demons, 5 zombies Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine Spike; 21 vamps, 12 demons+1 human+one parasite
Fang Gang go evil: Cordy: 3 Angel: 3 Gunn; 1 Wes; 1
Alternate Fang Gang; suburban Gunn Cordy: 4 Angel: 12 Fred; 3 Wes; 1 Gunn; 2 Connor; 1 Lorne; 1
Characters killed: poor WR&H security guard 2265
Recurring characters killed; Eve realises that she's going to die just like Anya in Buffy. 12
Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, Angel, Gunn, Lorne, Wes, Spike
Angel Investigations shot: Spike and Angel Angel: 15 Wes; 2 Spike; 1
Packing heat; not the gang but you've got to love a series with Uzi toting soccer moms! Wes; 13 Doyle; 1 Angel; 4 Gunn; 3 Fred; 5
Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 2 possible, Justine, Fred Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen. Fred; 1 Gunn, 1 possible Wes Groo; 1Cordy Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony
Kinky dinky: Spike talks about 'pounding the neighbours wife'.
Captain Subtext; Angel and Lorne comment on how well dressed Marcus is. Lindsey's wife is very reminiscent of Darla, you wonder if Angel and Spike are thinking that when they open the door. Gunn obviously wants to be punished. Illyria says 'We' are so weak?
Know the face, different character; 7
Parking garages; oh yeah 10,
Guantanamo Bay; Harmony has been told 'No torture' by Angel. Lorne is shocked when Angel reveals he left Gunn behind. The Wrath!
Buffy characters on Angel; 17 Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil, Andrew.
Questions and observations; Spike refers to Knightrider, he shouldn't have teased the Geeks! Spike asks what the collective name for the Angel gang is, we never quite decided, like AI and the Fang Gang personally. It's actually Spike who comes up with the idea of talking to Eve. Harmony in the title sequence, how great, MM in the show right from the pilot, now a regular. They talked about the Lorne Green idea before in Happy Anniverasry. Am I missing something about Wes' joke? The world without shrimp is referenced again, this time the world with it. Eve is the child of the senior partners but doesn't even know who or what they are? But surely Illyria does? Are all the inhabitants in the holding dimension prisoners? Do we ever see Gunn in his suit again? And he's shaved his head. Surely he must wear a suit for court? The partners obviously think a lot of Lindsey, keeping him alive to decide if he'll still be useful. What does 'blocking' mean? It's been 4 months since 'You're welcome'. Gunn actually comes across really well as the family man. Does Marcus represent the WB suits who cancelled Angel?
Marks out of 10; 8/10 for the holding dimension stuff alone
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