- Ron Engelman: The FBI and the Branch Davidians each claim the other started the fire. And we may never know the truth. So, instead, let's talk about what we do know. Fact: Fresno, California, 1973. A standoff with law enforcement ends when tear gas turns to fire, killing those inside. Fact: Los Angeles, '74. Standoff between the SLA and law enforcement ends when tear gas turns to fire, killing those inside. Fact: '81, West Fork, Arkansas. A standoff, tear gas, fire, death. 1983, Smithfield, Arkansas. 1985, Philadelphia. 1987, Escondido, California. All of them... standoff, tear gas, fire, death. The FBI knows this happens, and yet they made no plan to put out a fire if one started. We are... all of us... Americans. When did we start seeing each other as the enemy?
- Derek Ludlow: Hey, Ron. Say, I'm, uh... I'm one of the camera guys that's standing out here watching Mount Carmel. Something occurred to me. You know how the Branch Davidians have no way of communicating with the outside world? I've been thinking. There's this huge satelite dish on their roof. I mean, if we can somehow get them to listen to your show, we can ask 'em yes or no questions and they could move the dish to answer, right?
- David Koresh: Thibs.
- Steve Schneider: [following him out] Go, go. Go.
- Ron Engelman: That's not a bad idea. I guess the question would then be how do we get them to listen to my show?
- Derek Ludlow: [looking into his camera lens] Whoa. Ron, they just moved it. They moved the dish.
- Ron Engelman: They did?
- David Koresh: Again!
- Ron Engelman: Are you guys listening to me in there?
- Steve Schneider: Again! Move it, Thibs!
- Derek Ludlow: They moved it again.
- Ron Engelman: That's a "yes".
- David Koresh: We have communications!
- David Koresh: Gary?
- Gary Noesner: Oh, David. I have to say I've missed the sound of your voice, brother. What's going on?
- David Koresh: Somethig special happened today, Gary. Something I can't see as anything short of a miracle.
- Gary Noesner: What are you saying?
- David Koresh: I got my sign from God, Gary. We're coming out.
- David Koresh: I want to protect the message that we have going on in here. So when I go to jail, I can spend all my time answering the stupid questions. Like "Why do you have so many wives in there?" and "Why are you torturing babies?". 'Cause once I finish writing those seven seals, I will personally walk out that front door, and you can throw me in the jailhouse and come on down and feed me bananas for all you want.
- Gary Noesner: I'll come feed you anything you like. How long will it take you to write it?
- David Koresh: Oh, I'm thinking a week. A week or so.
- Gary Noesner: Are you telling me that once you have reduced your version of the seven seals to written form, that you and all your people are coming out of there?
- David Koresh: I have no reason to draw this out any longer, Gary.
- Gary Noesner: Please answer the question definitively. Are you coming out as soon as you're done?
- David Koresh: Gary, I'm going to fulfill my commitment to God. Now, if you would allow me to show you what has been pre-written by the prophets, you'll have a way better understanding of what's going on in here.
- Gary Noesner: I am asking you a very simple question, David. I need...
- David Koresh: And I'm gonna give you a very simple answer. Yes, yes, yes! We have no intention of dying in here, Gary.
- Gary Noesner: Okay, David. Well, I'm gonna let you get to work because, frankly, I am eagerly awaiting that manuscript.
- David Koresh: Well, I tell you what. It's gonna blow your socks off, Gary.
- Gary Noesner: They're surrendering. We're gonna work out the details of the surrender while David writes down his interpretation of the seven seals. Then they'll come out.
- Mitch Decker: How long's that gonna take?
- Gary Noesner: They're guessing a week.
- Mitch Decker: Tell 'em to take a few extra days. Maybe he can knock out his memoirs while he's at it.
- Gary Noesner: Look, I just got off the phone with the man, okay? He told me "I never intended to die in here." Those are his words, okay? But... Koresh's biggest fear is being silenced before he can share his message with the world. If we let him write it, he will come out peacefully.
- Mitch Decker: It's just another stall tactic.
- [more to Prince]
- Mitch Decker: You're not taking this seriously, are you?
- Gary Noesner: Mitch, we're been here six weeks. What's one more?
- Mitch Decker: I know how long we've been here.
- Gary Noesner: One more.
- Tony Prince: All right, Gary, start working out the details of surrender, and let's see if it happens. I can buy you one week.
- Steve Schneider: Everyone, listen up. I've got some news. David's received a sign from God. We're working out a plan to surrender. It's over. It's all over.
- Michele Jones: Do you think you'll go to jail... once this is done?
- David Thibodeau: Yeah. Probably for a little while.
- Michele Jones: D-do you think I'll go to jail?
- David Thibodeau: No. No, that... that would be crazy.
- Michele Jones: My idea of crazy has been changing.
- David Thibodeau: [they share a small laugh] Yeah. But, hey... when I get out of jail... I think I could look you up. Give you a call.
- Michele Jones: You won't have to. I'll be standing outside the jail, waiting to drive you home.
- Tony Prince: Honestly, it's been four days. How real do you think this Koresh manuscript is?
- Gary Noesner: I-I think it's real.
- Tony Prince: Have you seen any of it yet?
- Gary Noesner: No, they haven't sent anything out.
- Tony Prince: Has anyone in there seen it?
- Gary Noesner: Nobody's seen it, but he's working on it day and night, apparently.
- Janet Reno: You're telling me you've exhausted every other possible option?
- Tony Prince: Negotiations have reached an impasse, Madam Attorney General.
- Janet Reno: You're asking me to sign off on an assault that would put children in danger.
- Mitch Decker: I wouldn't call it an assault. Once we insert tear gas into the compound, they'll come right out.
- Janet Reno: I thought you said they all had gas masks in there.
- Mitch Decker: Nobody makes a gas mask that'll fit children.
- Mitch Decker: Once those mothers see those kids' eyes watering like that, game over.
- Janet Reno: Wouldn't that hurt them?
- Tony Prince: We believe it's the best option available.
- Mitch Decker: Our intelligence shows they continue to abuse those children while we wait.
- Janet Reno: There's no other way to end this?
- Tony Prince: I'm afraid it's the only way.
- Gary Noesner: There are barrels of CS gas out there.
- Tony Prince: This thing needs to be brought to a logical conclusion.
- Gary Noesner: CS gas is banned by the Geneva Convention. It would be a war crime to use CS gas on a... a terrorist. And you think it's a logical conclusion to use it on American women and children?
- Tony Prince: You've had almost two months to work this out. And you failed.
- Gary Noesner: What do you mean I failed? We have a deal for surrender!
- Gary Noesner: Steve, it's been a week. You told me you were gonna get me some pages.
- Steve Schneider: I know, but David...
- Gary Noesner: Nuh-uh, uh-uh! I need the pages.
- Steve Schneider: Gary, David really wants to get this right before he sends...
- Gary Noesner: I don't give a shit what David wants anymore! I need those pages!
- Steve Schneider: The last time he sent out a message, he was embarrassed, and you saw how that turned out. Why not give him the time that he needs so that he can get it right?
- Gary Noesner: We don't have time anymore. Get me the pages now, Steve. I am trying to help you people, but you make it so god damn hard. Do you have any idea what is...
- Steve Schneider: [the line suddenly cuts off] Hello?
- Gary Noesner: Steve?
- [turning around, he sees Prince has disconnected the call]
- Tony Prince: You've gotten a little too close to this one. I'm sending you home.
- Gary Noesner: Uh-uh. I'm not leaving.
- Mitch Decker: Gary... please don't make me have my guys do it.
- Gary Noesner: [being relieved from duty] You know... before this... before all the tanks and psy ops and guns... and cruelty... and bullshit... do you know how they kept order in Waco? Do you know how they kept the Branch Davidians in line? They talked to 'em! The local sheriff doesn't even carry a sidearm. He doesn't need one. But you people... look at yourselves! All this!
- [gesturing around the command post]
- Gary Noesner: ALL THIS! You think this is really working?
- [knowing it won't]
- Gary Noesner: Good luck.
- Gary Noesner: You cannot remove these people by force. The more you push them, the more they think it is a test of their faith.
- Gary Noesner: Still nothing?
- Walter Graves: They're still not answering.
- Gary Noesner: But you've been...
- Walter Graves: Yeah, calling every thirty minutes, just like you asked. They haven't answered in days. How long are we gonna keep trying?
- Ron Engelman: Let me make sure I'm getting this right. David Koresh believes the opening of the fifth seal begins when Babylon, the ATF...
- Professor Tabor: Mm-hmm.
- Ron Engelman: ...attacks the "peculiar people."
- Professor Tabor: Right, the Branch Davidians.
- Ron Engelman: Then there's a quote. "Little season of waiting."
- Professor Tabor: Yes, that's what they believe they're in right now.
- Ron Engelman: And that little season culminates in a second round of bloodshed in which the rest of them are killed.
- Professor Tabor: Exactly. But where this gets interesting is the interpretation of the little season. Um, in Biblical terms, that could be a month or a decade. It's not specific. And the word "season" in the Bible is a translation of the Greek word "kairos", which actually means...
- David Koresh: [listening on the radio] "Time."
- Professor Tabor: ..."time" more than "season". So you can think of it like "right time" versus a literal season. These people are not crazy. David Koresh is not crazy. His theology follows a coherent logic. Agree with it or not, there's something to it.
- Dick DeGuerin: My name is Dick DeGuering. David Koresh's lawyer.
- Jack Zimmerman: Jack Zimmerman. Steve Schneider's lawyer.
- Dick DeGuerin: We'd like to speak with our clients.
- Ron Engelman: Ron Engelman, KGBS.
- Tony Prince: You can't be serious. You expect me to, what, just let you walk up there and knock on the front door?
- Dick DeGuerin: We filed a writ of habeas corpus.
- Tony Prince: Well, that only applies hen someone's in custody.
- Jack Zimmerman: Well, if they're not in custody, we'll arrange transportation so they can leave.
- Tony Prince: They haven't even asked for a lawyer.
- Dick DeGuerin: Yes, they have.
- [he gestures towards the compound; hanging from a window is a banner reading "We Want DeGuerin and Zimmerman"]
- Dick DeGuerin: They're asking for their lawyers in front of the whole world. Now... what do you think's gonna happen to you when this whole case is dismissed because you refused them the right to counsel?
- Dick DeGuerin: ATF claims that you shot at them first through those front doors, but the metal bends inward. They claim their helicopters didn't fire, but the holes in Jaydean's room are clearly from above. We have recordings, the 911s, Wayne made of you trying to surrender. Trust me on this, gentlemen, any jury sees this at all, you got a hell of a case for self defense here.
- David Koresh: This is the U.S. government we're up against, and you're sittin' here telling me we're gonna get a fair shake?
- Jack Zimmerman: The government doesn't sit on the jury. People like y'all do.
- Dick DeGuerin: Now, let me ask you this. If you were on that jury and you saw that front door, what would your verdict be?
- David Koresh: What's the plan? What's the strategy here?
- Dick DeGuerin: The plan is we go for full acquittal.
- David Koresh: Thanks again.
- Dick DeGuerin: We'll be in touch.
- Steve Schneider: You realize we're standing outside.
- David Koresh: I know.
- Steve Schneider: What do you think?
- David Koresh: The theologian on the radio show, the little season... the camera man calling in, the satellite... the lawyers. All of this doesn't happen by chance.
- Dick DeGuerin: Steve Schneider will then deliver the manuscript of the seven seals to the theologian James Tabor. Once the manuscript is delivered to Tabor, David Koresh will leave the building, either by foot or on stretcher, followed by those remaining on the inside.
- Mitch Decker: How do we know the place isn't rigged with bombs? I don't want my men getting blown up when they search the place.
- Gary Noesner: Mitch, why the hell would they put bombs in their own house?
- Dick DeGuerin: I'll be the last one out of the building, and... the Texas Rangers will be the ones to secure the scene, not you, to protect the evidence.
- Mitch Decker: Not acceptable.
- Dick DeGuerin: Non-negotiable. If you wanted them to trust you, you shouldn't have tortured 'em.
- Steve Schneider: Like, have I read the manuscript personally? No. But... I know he's working on it.
- Gary Noesner: All right, Steve, I need you to send me some pages to show my bosses that you and I are working towards a resolution. Because right now, they think David is stalling.
- Steve Schneider: I can try, but...
- Gary Noesner: To avoid them making any hasty decisions. Do you understand me?
- Steve Schneider: Yeah. Yeah, I understand. We'll send out some pages. I'll talk to David.
- Gary Noesner: Hey, where'd Prince go?
- Walter Graves: He left with Decker.
- Gary Noesner: Wh-where?
- Walter Graves: I think they headed to the airport.
- Steve Schneider: I need your permission to send out some of the manuscript pages.
- David Koresh: No. It's not ready.
- Steve Schneider: David, Gary has got to show his bosses that we are really doing something here. We have to send out some pages.
- David Koresh: Steve, last time I rushed it, the message wasn't ready. And finally, I've received the word of God. And this is gonna be the most sacred revelation in human history. It's gotta be right!
- Steve Schneider: I know, but I am telling you...
- David Koresh: And I'm telling you you'll get it when it's done!
- Gary Noesner: Don't do it, Tony. Don't go in there with gas.
- Tony Prince: This isn't your fight any longer, Gary.
- David Thibodeau: David, it's the FBI on the phone.
- David Koresh: I've agreed to everything. But they won't stop.
- David Thibodeau: It... it sounds important.
- Walter Graves: David, I need to tell you that my bosses have run out of patience with you.
- David Koresh: Every day, we try and show you men good faith, but all you want to do is fight. I'm tired. I don't wanna fight no more. I'm a life. Everyone in here is a life. We've got children. We're American citizens. But we all have our breaking point.
- Walter Graves: You brought yourself to that breaking point, David. If you had walked out on that day as you promised, by now you'd probaby be out on bail for God's sake!
- David Koresh: We both know that's not true. You got your guys out here removing evidences, you say you're the government, you wanna settle this in a court of law, but I don't believe it anymore! Are you covering up for the ATF? Because it appears that way, Walter.
- Walter Graves: We're not removing evidence, David.
- David Koresh: You are removing evidences! And there's things in here that we can't replace! Like that '68 SS El Camino! You can't replace that! They don't make those anymore!
- Walter Graves: Well, you know, I don't really have control over that, David.
- David Koresh: It's wrong, and you're doing wrong by God and by man, and every day, you're adding to your wrong!
- Walter Graves: David, you seem to have no concern about anybody within that place except yourself!
- David Koresh: Walter, please tell me... what is it you men really want?
- Walter Graves: We want you and everyone else in that place to come out safely.
- David Koresh: Well, you're not showing me that that's what you want. Because I believe you want just the opposite.
- Walter Graves: That's not true, David.
- David Koresh: Your commanders are fixing to ruin the safety of me and my children, my life, the lives of my wives, the lives of my family, the lives of my friends. You all are fixing to step across that ribbon, and you know it! Walter, if you want to place this in the history books as one of the saddest days the world's ever known... then that's on you.
- Steve Schneider: David, wake up. They're gonna gas us.
- David Koresh: What? Gas us?
- Steve Schneider: I mean they're coming with gas.
- David Koresh: All right, well, get Walter back on the phone.
- Steve Schneider: No, it cut off.
- David Koresh: Cut off? What do mean "cut off"?
- Steve Schneider: I got mad and I ripped out the phone.
- David Koresh: Why would you do that, Steve?
- Steve Schneider: They're done talking!