The 12th Victim (2023) User Reviews

Profoundly Disturbing Documentary

[thalassafischer · 8/10 · 10 April 2023]

If the crimes committed in 1958 had happened today, it would be readily apparent to anyone with a post-secondary level of education or secondary grasp of sociology that Caril Fugate was literally a 14 year old child, kidnapped and tortured by an adult psychopath.

Fugate's family was murdered without her knowledge, and in film and audio clips it's readily apparent that the 14 years old of the 1950s was more similar to the 11 or 12 year old of today. Caril was a child in every way, not a manipulative woman or an "accomplice" - her stalker ex-boyfriend who she broke up with murdered her family then dragged her along on a 600 mile killing spree through Nebraska that ended in Wyoming when she desperately ran to the police for help.

The fact that people can muster so much hate in the year 2023 against this person is astounding. Some of the reviews listed here are absolutely vile, ignorant and misogynistic, the kind of trash one would expect from some old white Republicans from the Midwest.

I am even more angry, though, at the lies that have been perpetuated through popular culture within my own life through movies like Natural Born Killers which falsely romanticized this horrific tale of a criminal grooming an underaged child then nearly ruining her life.

Most of the people involved directly in the events are dead now or would be around 80 or 90 years old. This documentary in no way affected her parole from prison way back in 1983 (40 years ago) so it's not "biased" or "one sided." If anything the past narrative was constructed in a way to make Caril Ann seem older, calculating, and sexually manipulative when in actual police interviews she tells the cops that she's "not sure" if she had sex with her predator then goes on to describe sex in a very naive and virginal way.

There is also hard evidence in the form of audio and visual clips of how naive and sweet Caril Ann continued to be throughout her entire prison sentence and life outside, never getting into trouble and entering helping professions in middle-age as a civilian. I mean the nerve of people saying she should rot in prison is just sick, it's pure misogyny, it is the whole cultural narrative spun that Chuck would never have killed without her when he literally raped and dismembered multiple corpses, including murdering a 3 year old child. The fact that anyone would believe a 14 year old virgin drove him to that is bonkers in the first place. America is a scary place, y'all.

Changed my mind

[mcbwallace · 7/10 · 1 April 2023]

Definitely too long, BUT I have always thought Caril was guilty. I've heard all of this information before, but never in the proper context to properly portray the circumstances. For a 14-year-old CHILD, and a man with a very low IQ to be allowed to communicate pre-trial, ensuring that Starkweather is angered by his codefendant to ensure he takes her down with him? No one questions that his story changes, as long as it's what they wanted to hear. No ethics at all, not to mention the evidence that was sent back to Wyoming and never used in her defense. Putting her on trial as an adult, put in an adult prison. Oh, and she was "pulling all the strings". Of course they were all grown men saying an 8th grader outsmarted ALL of them. Shame on all of them! Bit of a rant, but when my panties are in this much of a bunch, that's a positive review. Would have been a higher rating if the episodes had been edited a little.

OK so here are my critical thoughts about this Documentary

[orcinussr · 6/10 · 18 February 2023]

Again I believe its noteworthy to point out that I can not remark upon the actual subject matter (other than it definitely being worthwhile of being told, in terms of human interest), but merely the mechanics and technical aspects of the film ITSELF - {which is wierd because this is only true in cases of documentary films}

Here is my biggest issue, and it's a big one - shortly into episode one, we hear 'the words' of Starkweather read to us as if its the man's voice and inflection and cadance and emphasis, HOWEVER it's not the voice of Starkweather at all, nay, it's a voice actor and that's not fair - that's not kosher - that's BAD BUSINESS - especially considering they never do tell the viewer that it's an audible recreation

Similarly, much of it is filmed in what I like to call 'Confuse-a-Vison', where they smash cut quickly between and thru still photos and images that are circa 1950s but have zero connection to the actual case - mere filler shown under the guise that the viewer might see this and feel that the film maker has all of this never before seen footage - however once again this is NOT the case

Now I'm not saying this is unacceptable, however at no time are we told about these recreations but rather left to either be cowed into believing that we're watching and listening to authentic relics of the case when simply we are not

That all being said, for me, it's a massive detractor.

Well done and touching

[bt698nhj · 7/10 · 25 March 2023]

If you think that a 14-year-old girl should have attempted to prevent a murdering madman from killing people, you should excuse yourself from the planet. Clearly she is not a murderer and was not in a position to prevent murders at the age of 14 with no one intervening on her behalf at any point with this monster.

The documentary was interesting and well made. I appreciated the clips that they included that put you in that time and place. I also appreciated that they narrated some interviews that they did not have original recordings for. Well I normally think a four-part documentary is too long, in this case I found it interesting to the end.

ABOUT MY REVIEWS:

I do not include a synopsis of the film/show -- you can get that anywhere and that does not constitute a meaningful review -- but rather my thoughts and feelings on the film that hopefully will be informative to you in deciding whether to invest 90-180 minutes of your life on it.

My scale: 1-5 decreasing degrees of "terrible", with 5 being "mediocre" 6- OK. Generally held my interest OR had reasonable cast and/or cinematography, might watch it again 7 - Good. My default rating for a movie I liked enough to watch again, but didn't rise to the upper echelons 8- Very good. Would watch again and recommend to others 9- Outstanding. Would watch over and over; top 10% of my ratings 10 - A classic. (Less than 2% receive this rating). For Lifetime Movies for Chicks (LMFC), drop the above scale by 3 notches. A 6 is excellent and 7 almost unattainable.

Not entirely factual

[pmedmoe · 6/10 · 4 January 2024]

I thought this documentary would be good but they "Hollywoodized" it too much. They also state "facts" which are not true. (Sticks, etc. Inside Carol King - not found in autopsy. Starkweather actually had an IQ of 110, not 90 as stated).

For a better read on whether Caril Ann Fugate is guilty or innocent, read "Starkweather" by Harry N. MacLean. He presents the crime, the trials and evidence in a coherent manner. He also presents psychological information that wasn't known about in 1958.

Truth is Caril Ann was railroaded by lawmen and a terrible court system. She rarely deviated her account of what occurred where Starkweather lied at every opportunity.

Casts light not only on miscarriage of justice but also the USA's problems with guns, violence, misogyny & elected justice officials

[RastaVari · 9/10 · 27 February 2023]

Interesting docuseries about a case of which I wasn't aware (not a yank or a Springsteen fan thankfully), but that clearly has a hold on the American psyche.

As well as outlining the serious issues with how the case of the 12th (or 1st) victim and only survivor of the USA's first sociopathic spree killer of the TV news-age it contextaulises, both historically and culturally, those and future difficulties Caril has faced in gaining access to proper justice.

It also touches on the USA's obsession with glamourising guns, violence and misogynist men through pulp fiction, music, TV and movies, whilst sexualising,moralising and demonising the 'women' around them, even when those 'women' are children who've just turned fourteen.

It briefly alludes to the perilous and peculiar set-up of justice in the USA where law enforcement and prosecutors are elected rather than employed on merit, and therefore under pressure to get the results a baying mob of local constituents demand of them in a country that is uncivilised enough to still have the death penality in the C21th whilst pretending to be all sorts of permutations of 'Christian'.

BTW for UK audiences the cinematographer is Peter Hutchens (not Hitchens.... that was really confusing me....).

Could have been better, but.......

[barbjahner-93244 · 9/10 · 13 March 2023]

As far as the filmmaking style went it could have been better and more focused. But the actual story is good and it's about time that Carol got fair treatment! The system convicted her before she even went down trial. She has passed numerous lie detector tests and passed all of them and never once in all the years since 1958 has she ever changed her story. Most investigators will tell you that people are lying will change their story a lot. Furthermore, I knew Carol when I worked at the same hospital with her in Lansing and she was a sweet and loving person and everyone absolutely loved her. I have seen her cry many times over what happened to her and cried for the people who lost their lives, including her own family. I hope that she will get the part in that she deserves. I love you Caril and I was very proud to call you my friend.

Dreadful Bias

[davindo-22961 · 1/10 · 19 February 2023]

I consider this so-called "documentary" to be nothing more than a "mockumentary" in that it is so biased towards the ridiculously named "12th Victim", namely Caril Ann Fugate, that it presents a wholly unbalanced view in attempting to persuade viewers that she was completely innocent of complicity in all the crimes of which she was convicted by a jury of her peers. Indeed, I would go so far as to suggest that the biased views put forward in this series are extremely dangerous in that they suggest that trials with convictions that took place so long ago where most, if not all, of the participants have passed away should be regarded as "unsafe" when "modern standards" are applied.

Absolutely incredible truth telling

[khszbqtq · 9/10 · 21 July 2023]

I cried out loud all by myself, clapped out loud to an empty room, jumped off my couch like a teenage cheerleader (im actually a 46 yr old exhausted woman who works 10.5hr nightshifts at Amazon), and dropped to my knees and prayed while watching this documentary. Caril..I left home at 11yrs old and watching this made me think of all the times i went with or stayed with an older, possibly slightly dangerous man because I was either terrified of him, cold, hungry, or just so tired i needed a warm soft bed. Therefore, there is no doubt in my mind that i would've followed any crazy idiot ANYWHERE if my siblings or my parents lives were threatened in ANY way and hearing your story has made me look back to what i've went through and made me see how easily something like this could've happened to me. And terrifies me to think of how many other women this has happened to. I am so sorry for what you went through but it sure has made me awful Damn proud to be a woman because you have reinforced my belief in the fact that WOMEN WILL NEVER STAND FOR BEING HELD DOWN!!!! When we live the truth, stand for the truth, and speak the truth.... WE WILL BE HEARD...and your vindication in the form of a pardon is at the top of my daily prayer list. May the balance of right and wrong be in your favor because girl....you certainly deserve it. I am so sorry for the shittiness of society and I wish for you the seat at the front gate of heaven cause i dont about you but, instead of getting in, i think it'll be a whole lot funner to see who gets kicked outta line!

Terrible documentary

[nbcrgsv · 1/10 · 22 February 2023]

This is just another one sided documentary like making a murderer. I thought it was going to be good at first then quickly into the second episode it starts the one sided part so you won't be able to get the truth about the story. I guess that's what some people want to watch these days but it's definitely not for me. I deleted it after the watching part of the second episode & will not watch the rest. I would much rather watch one that is not so one sided & plus most iPod the people that is saying she is innocent wasn't even alive when all of it took place so they have no clue f she took part in it or not.

Excellent Documentary but still Guilty

[guam-73942 · 10/10 · 17 March 2023]

This is probably the best documentary you will find on the Starkweather killings. Starkweather comes across, rightfully, as a unhinged evil monster yet, somehow, and we will never know why, acted out all this horror in some form of love bond with Fugate. And that is what has spawned so many movies, mostly bad, based on the duo.

The filmmakers have a ax to grind though. They want us to believe in Fugate's total innocence. They defeat this purpose in numerous ways. The film clips and pictures of Fugate during the time of her surrender and Starkweather's capture show a young girl with nothing but a cold, emotionless, blank face. There is zero indication that any of the absolute horrors had any effect on her in any way. In fact, she is wearing the expensive coat of the wealthy Lincoln wife that was brutally slain and bragging about how nice it is.

Fugate changes her personality the longer she is behind bars and the brutal realization that she may be there for life sinks in. The authorities saw this at the time.

The documentary does allow for some comments from non-believers in her innocence who feel she was in her element the whole time only giving up "when the jig was up" and that no one but Starkweather and Fugate really know what happened because they left no witnesses. A fair point.

Ultimately, the authorities in Nebraska in 2020 had the final word when they denied her pardon.

One sided documentary

[ablondmoment · 1/10 · 4 March 2023]

This is a one sided documentary. Trying to make you think Caril Ann Fugate is nothing but a victim and so innocent. I still to this day do not believe she is innocent. I should have known this would be bad when its called the 23th victim.

She knew what was going on with her parents and everyone he killed. I thought this would tell us the true story not try to make us think she is innocent through the who documentary.

If this crime happened now she would have just been let off no matter what she did or killed. No one gets in trouble for anything now.

Caril Ann Fugate should have spent her life in prison never been let out ever.

Too long for its own good

[paul-allaer · 5/10 · 24 February 2023]

As "The 12th Victim" (2023 release; 4 episodes ranging from 47 to 57 min. Each) opens, we are introduced to teenagers Charles Starkweather (18) and Caril Ann Fugate (14), restless and outcasts in Lincoln , Nebraska. We then go to "December 1, 1957", when a gas attendant is shot at close range by Charles. It marks the beginning of a murder spree that shook Nebraska, and indeed the country. At this point we are 10 minutes into Episode 1.

Couple of comments: this is the latest from director Nicola Marsh ("Stay On Board: The Leo Baker Story"). Here she reassesses the events taking place in late 57/early 58, when two teenage kids when on a murder spree. Episode 1 of this mini-series is by far the best, as it paints a good picture of what US society was like at that time, and the enormous shock these events caused. The central question of course is: why did these kids do it? And what role exactly did Carile Ann play in this? In and of itself this could've been a very intriguing true crime documentary. Alas, the series is far too long for its own good and spends an inordinate amount of time on details that are just not all that interesting. Cut the running time in half, if not more, and we'd almost certainly be talking about a far better end product. This is a missed opportunity in my book.

"The 12th Victim" recently started streaming on Showtime. If you are a fan of true crime documentaries, I'd readily suggest you check this out, and draw your own conclusion.

Continuation of a media circus into a 7th decade distorts facts and priorities

[didier-20 · 4/10 · 16 March 2023]

There are only 2 unique characteristics to this crime story: 1. The body count in such a short time-frame.

2. The continuous exposure to tv moving image media of the central protagonsts and the case so as to constitute as a cultural event.

Beyond that, important factors have not been reviewed or understood.

1. Child killers, inclduing females, are not a unique phenomina in the USA. In fact there are 100s of cases of juveniles tried and found guilty of murder.

2. Juveniles tried as adults for gun related crimes is very common across the US. Is it right ? Many would say no, it's a distorted form of gun control, where juveniles are tried as children for almost every other crime they commit.

3. Being found guilty of first degree murder by association within a homicide context but where you did not actually commit the homicide itself is far from unique, being common in many states in the US. Is it fair ? Many would say no, but still it prevails.

4. The sentence of lfe without the possiblity of parole for juveniles was common for homicide related crimes until 2016, when the supreme court ruled it unlawful. However, the review of all existing cases has not seen a blanket application of parole applied to juveniles tried before 2016. In many conservative southern states, the now obligatory review of such cases typically finds the guilty party not suitable for parole at review. In some states this finding has been as high as 80%.

With those 4 important observations stated, lets now look at the case of Caril Ann Fugate as re-visited in this documentary:

1. Caril Ann Fugate's sentence compared to many juveniles across the US and considering the killing spree she witnessed had a high body count and also included her entire family; is actually very lean. She was granted life with parole, during a progressive era of prison reform and never served a full life term.

2. The documentary repeatedly incorrectly states that if this crime has occured today she would have been treated differently but this is entirely untrue. The only difference is that it would not have occured as a media event from inception. As with all other juveniles commiting similar offences today, she could have been tried as an adult and for first degree murder by association with the event context. In fact, given the extreme nature of the murder spree, she may well have been given 2 life sentences and the possibility of parole may have been subject to an extreme delay or rejection upon review.

Other points to observe: 1. Caril Ann Fugate is not different from any other notorious criminal exposed to the media, in that she has used it to court and manipulate it to her own interests. What's apparent is that Caril Ann Fugate is primarily obsessed with her own guilt. She sees the laws as about her own injustice alone. She alters the narrative repeatedly over time. She amplifies the original Folie a Deux M. O. which was one of a desire to manifest an absolute sense of freedom in the face of the status quo. By then end of the documentary the seeking of a pardon is exactly that sentiment made manifest a 2nd time.

The question here is why would have Caril Ann Fugate qualified for a pardon when many in her situation and who recieve worse sentences do not ? What is the pardon for exactly, given the manner in which the law continues to exist ?

The documentary is uncannily unspecific in exacting what the argument being applied is. A post me-too lens is evoked suggesting a degree of total innocence buy lieu of the fact she was an under aged female subject to an extreme form of male control and abuse. But a folie a deux dynamic is also evident and at a prior point both culprits were equally qualified as juveniles widely acknowldged by their community as in a lawful relationship.

Caril Ann Fugate was tried and given, in the end and relative to similar like her, a light sentence for the moral failure of not acting to appeal, intervene or place herself in any kind of compromising position in the face of acting as witness to a brutal string of murders.

Would every 14 year old girl in the same position have been so passive ? This is the primary question and the judgement in the end decides the answer is no. Fugate's choices and degree of culpability were to an extent unique to her. Every one is different and another in the same place may have saught to intervene. It's a horrible dilemma and clearly one Caril Ann Fugate was never able to come to terms with.

What this documentary failed to do was reframe the entire media circus in a historical examination and compare the case to similar in the US. It should have argued that the law continues to be applied in the same state and distort the nature of culpability and then promoted a debate for reform.

Instead the series simply continued with the media circus, spinning it through yet another round of self obsessed insularity which in the end argued that Caril Ann Fugate had no culpability.

Such a conclusion is simply the logical outcome of an endless playing out of criminal judgement as cultural entertainment, where all reason becomes fogged and the accused is given a controlling voice to re-shape the narrative.

Caril Ann Fugate had degree of culpability and was tried, as many others still are, by the law as it existed then across the US and still does today. The time she served was far less than many like her served since the events of the case.

It's a travesty of intellect that still after 70 years of media exposure, the real issue of the state and terms of the law as it is applied across the USA is still not subject to a wider public debate.

'Dreadful Bias' - Find The Review w/That Title

[safetypropaganda · 2/10 · 18 March 2023]

Spot on. Hypocritical, extremely long, convoluted feminism in the sense that girls are inherently naive, free thinking, culpability, awareness of societal norms....they are so helpless, pure and malleable that they can't possibly be held responsible. How does portraying a girl as 100% helpless and incapable of consciousness support any hope for egalitarian society? It's so absurd. All of the token stock footage of 'cop car in the 50s' that clearly has nothing to do with this case is rampant.

They eventually go on to criticize the likes of Terrance Malick, David Lynch, Quinten Tarantino, Oliver Stone and others for 'getting the story wrong.' It so wasn't like that 😭

Then they screen the film Badlands for the 'victim' in prison and SHE says 'wow.....that's exactly how it was!' Then these 'experts' who were not born at the time of the crimes go on to explain how her opinion is wrong. She shows no emotion; ever. THATS because she was coached to not show emotion. Ehhh.

Natural Born Killers has absolutely nothing to do with this case. Natural Born Killers is about absolutely dirtbags who become obsessed with violence and can't help but make painfully cheap limited series for Showtime. The director even included a clip of Oliver Stone explaining the film isn't about Micky and Mallory; it's how society and media hyperbolically celebrate them. THEN you include the 'expert' who goes on to say what horrible a horrible film it is for getting the facts wrong. NOT EVERY FILM WITH a) Man b) Woman c) Violence IS BASED ON YOUR STUPID OBSESSION! It's not that original!

There is not a single relevant individual included in the half dozen people who speak over stock footage of the 1950s. There is a scene where it would have been great to hear from individuals who are very much alive and very much easy to contact. Did you think to call Martin Sheen? Any of the directors? How about a local politician? ANYONE.

There is a feature length documentary worth of subject matter that an open minded documentarian could have worked with. It IS an interesting subject until this series ruins its credibility. What a waste.

Watch Paradise Lost, Thin Blue Line, Making A Murderer or even the fictional The Night Of is far more based in reality than this ineffective five hour agenda.

To each generation its own

[kanankoipi-56197 · 4/10 · 20 February 2023]

The fable of young outlaw lovers lives on - at least in Lincoln, Nebraska.

As the story is passed on, each new generation has to put its imprint on the chronicle.

From pulp fiction to celluloid and VHS, the folktale develops from murks of desperate, illicit underage sex filled rampage to the essence of digital #metoo era.

The law is as it is interpreted. Charles was lucky enough not to be made a political exhibit of and fried fairly promptly, while luckless Caril was discerned too young and innocent to get the chair and too wicked to let go free, interpretations varying from a fire breathing termagant to a scared little orphan Annie.

Somehow, I can't make connection between Charles and James Dean, he has more like the air of James Cagney in 1937 "Angels with Dirty Faces".

Oh yeah, the Establishment has got its pound of flesh, alright.

Hmmm

[dbriz-24605 · 3/10 · 7 August 2023]

Some interesting footage from the events inter-spliced with questionable use of hypnosis, lip reading, current feminism and the usual amount of spinning events toward the outcome desired by the title.

Fair enough. As expected. It's not advertised as even handed.

The Starkweather rampage is a seminal story in Lincoln and Lancaster County Nebraska. No one who has lived there as have I for long stretches, has not known or heard eyewitness accounts of the terror that prevailed. Lincoln at the time was more like a small town with a city population. To say everyone knew everyone is only slight exaggeration.

Many citizens had personal ties to officers closely involved with Fugate during and after her return from Wyoming. Near all, if not all, believed her demeanor was belligerent and showed little remorse.

So, as intimated we'll never know. But let us recognize that key questions remain unanswered.