White Vengeance (2011) User Reviews

The lesser of two evils

[dvc5159 · 6/10 · 20 December 2011]

Here's a swordplay film that takes its time developing its story and characters. "White Vengeance" is an elaborate, sumptuous, and often lavish epic film, ambitiously crafted by Daniel Lee ("Black Mask"). In the heart of the frantic battle sequences lies a thriller that thrills by its characters planning and trying to outwit, manipulate, and defeat one another.

Leon Lai and Feng Shao-Feng portray the two scheming leads, in an absorbing character study of the two. I was at a loss as to who was actually tyrannical or valiant. While both actors are good in their roles, Lai dominates the show with his subtle and effective performance, showing calm and reserve even at dangerous times. Zhang Hanyu and veteran Anthony Wong portray advisers to the two leads, with Hanyu showing a sombre aura despite looking wise; Wong borders on over-acting during the Banquet scene but improves greatly in his scenes after that.

From the mysterious opening to its melancholic ending, its characters that are full of wit and brains, this film never lets up on the complexity of the plot. I love films which take their time developing their key characters (bonus points if said characters are elaborate schemers) so I was pleasantly surprised that this film had done so, in a length of just under two and a half hours. Slow-paced? Maybe. Boring? Absolutely not. It is the characterization and elaborate scheming that makes it so exciting to watch; as time progresses the characters' motives become more and more entangled, and morals are questioned during the melancholic final 30 minutes of the movie, which elevate this epic film from good to near-great. Readers of Sun Tzu's "The Art of War" may want to give this one a watch, here is a film which blends strategy with motive very effectively, to an extent where those traits are blurred.

However, like many swordplay films before, this one features the usual - elaborate and colorful costumes and production design, crisp cinematography, and an atmospheric music score to bring it home. "White Vengeance" somewhat strays from the music score part; it doesn't sound like the typical Chinese swordplay film, it sounds much more haunting than melodramatic. The cinematography, however is superb and will remind film buffs of similar shots in previous English epic films such as "Braveheart" or "The Lord of the Rings".

For all the stuff it got right, I am willing pass over the fact that some of the CG effects look awful and unnecessary, and that some of the stunts (including the battle at the Banquet) are too elaborate for its kind (but not reaching Yuen Woo-Ping levels).

All is well with the Chinese swordplay film. Lee has proudly claimed this film as the best movie he's made in his career. Not having seen all of his other films, I can't say, but he certainly has made a very good one.

Overall rating: 78/100

some isolated comments and thoughts

[oro1000000 · 7/10 · 30 May 2013]

I am hovering around 7 or 8 for this one.

The English translation is just translation in this movie. I can understand the classic Chinese they use in the conversation, but I found that the English subtitles totally ruin the beauty of it. Whoever the translator were, this person didn't even bother using the word farewell in place of goodbye in appropriate situations. Too bad u really have to understand Chinese to enjoy the linguistic pulchritude of this piece.

Also, it is too bad that the tale about Yu Ji's dance is not acted out before Yu Ji's suicide.

Plot is alright. I kinda like the intellectual "fights" between Zhang Liang and Fan Zeng. I particularly favor their quotes from the Book of Yi and their argument on the property of certainty(change) of future and fate.

Many little issues, such as the far-fetching finger-biting scene and the awkward first-time encounter between Yu Ji and Xiang Yu, which involves over-unrealistic trust between the 3 figures, exists, and they could have been taken care of with more efforts.

It is kinda interesting to see that, observing from all the male characters, the Chinese definition of masculinity is physically characterized by the dark eyebrow and tanning face instead of the Hollywood style of big muscle, and psychologically noted for excellent analytic skills (playing weiqi, the Chinese chess in addition to figuring out what plots other folks are planning) and knowledge on classics works.

The last plot of Fan Zeng framing all of Liu Bang's inner-circle people is a very excellent attempt of bring up another little tide of climax, but is kinda far-fetching to me. I don believe being in a ruler's position impair one's capacity of trust, it merely requires more skill to use it.

They made a Poor Drama out of a Historically Exciting Story

[ebiros2 · 6/10 · 6 September 2013]

This is a movie about an event that actually happened in Chinese history, but it takes artistic license and changes what happened in reality. The result is an almost unrecognizable story to what happened with Liu Bang and Xiang Yu during the war of Chu-Han contention.

The story is about one of the most famous war in Chinese history between the two rivals Liu Bang and Xiang Yu for the control of entire China. History is clear about who the winner is and Liu Bang becomes the first emperor of the Han dynasty. But this is one of the most exciting story in Chinese history next to "The Romance of the Three Kingdoms".

Whatever they changed from the historical story actually made the story worse. I have no idea why the producers chose to make the story into the drama that is this movie. The plot of the original story is far better than this story. There is no build up to the conflict that happens in the real story of Liu Bang and Xiang Yu. It also doesn't show why Xiang Yu who was clearly winning at the start, ended up losing his force, and eventually gets surrounded by Liu Bang's army. Feast at the Hong gate was one of the turning point of this war, and Xiang Yu had a once in a life time opportunity to kill Liu Bang, but failed to cash in on this opportunity. He never recovered from this mistake, and his tactics meanders after this meeting until his eventual demise.

There is so much highlight scenes in this war, and the characters were all so interesting, but this movie screwed all of this up. All the good details of the story never made it into this movie. The two hour long movie could easily have been an hour and a half if the useless drama the script writer inserted into the story were edited out.

Failure of script writing is the ultimate downfall of this movie. Compared to "The Red Cliff I and II" where director John Woo carefully inserted his interpretation to the story, which made that story so good, this movie had no such story telling behind it.

Too bad, for the money they put into this movie, it could have been another "Assassin" level production. A better movie about Liu Bang and Xiang Yu is awaited with more spot light on the interesting characters, and build up to the story.

awful screenplay, directing and acting

[rightwingisevil · 27 April 2012]

i partially agree with joe sun's review, but disagree that movies if borrowed from historical incidents had to match the facts correctly. but using historical stuff and making into movies indeed is not an easy task to avoid comparison judgment. this movie, inevitably would be judged critically like other Chinese movies with the similar historical I.O.U. facts. but it's not the problem that i consider this movie is another immediate failure when Chinese movie investors and producers tried to make a movie out of the ancient Chinese history. because the screenplay is simply so bad. it not only twisted the historical incident to serve the storyline conveniently but also failed to give all the characters enough background to develop. the whole plot only started from in the middle of the incident and then tried so hard to mix romance, fatal love, fatal decisions in battles. it neither sowed enough seeds to allow characters to develop into full-grown roles, nor sowed too less to narrow a straight storyline. furthermore, since it's about a war and battles between too civil militia forces, they had to use lot of fighting scenes to accommodate the background, so they had to use lot of meaningless footage to portray such highly CGI effect boring scenes and at the same time wasted a lot of production budget to furnish the scenes. actors cast for this movie are the popular ones but not all on the same level, the actor who played Liu Bang, is a rare species by always acting so rigidly like mummy but could still become a movie icon level figure. the story of the triangle romance also failed miserably, even laughable. fighting scenes are so formulaic, so boring to the extreme. every ingredient in this movie were wrongly and mistakenly used and put in, there's nothing right about this movie. my final verdict about this movie:

screenplay: 0/10 directing: 3/10 acting: 5/10 boring meter: 10/10

even with English or any other language subtitle, without the help of the basic knowledge of Chinese history, this movie would only fall into a big screen war movie produced from china. nothing else. viewers would only get a vague impression as another formulaic Chinese war movie mixed with some Chinese kung fu fighting scenes, lot of armors, swords, spears.... lot of beard and mustaches and, unavoidably with a sprinkle of pointless romance.

Hong men yan chuan qi

[g-45807 · 7/10 · 23 February 2019]

Zhang Hanyu and Huang Qiusheng gave us excellent performance.I love the strategies and ending.

very bad storyline

[cysun · 1/10 · 5 March 2012]

I always believe the historic movie has to somewhat be accurate. of course, it is a movie, story can be more dram-alike which creates more tension of the movie. but this story is just down to the dirt. every part, (not just details) of this true history is wrong.

The idea of story is really foggy and unclear. the war scene is far from good.

fortunately,the actors are hardcore professionals. they somehow saved this movie from "super bad" to "meh~". this Danial lee, who wrote the story/direct, should stop making these epic historical stories look like trash on the screen.

A Nutshell Review: White Vengeance

[DICK STEEL · 8/10 · 29 November 2011]

Granted it did start off in rather disorientating factor, especially if one is not acutely aware of the historical event known as the Feast at Hong Gate between rivals Liu Bang (Leon Lai) and Xiang Yu (Feng Shaofeng), warlords who have been pitted against each other by the last emperor of Qin in order to seek the benefits from bickering amongst the insurgent ranks. Both are serving King Huai of Chu, but in essence both are seeking the highest post of the land, each with very different characteristics and styles that will determine the kind of rulership should either ascend the throne, with Xiang Yu seen as the more ruthless of the duo, and Liu Bang the more compassionate.

But of course this is not a history lesson, and while most of the proceedings at Hong Gate were fairly covered, Daniel Lee's input for artistic license and merit served the film well. The introduction had been jarring no thanks to flashbacks and rapid fire introductions to a multitude of historical and fictitious characters that will serve to confuse the clueless (like myself initially), but do hang in there as soon after you'll start to see past all the bearded men, their ranks and their loyalties in each faction of the rivalry and center upon the characters who matter. It is the buildup to the events at Hong Gate, and the Hong Gate proceedings itself which is truly impressive, that White Vengeance truly shifted into top gear, and never relented in its pacing all the way to a gripping finale full of twists and turns, conflict and schemes,

Like the game of choice in Go / Weiqi, White Vengeance played out like a measured chess game, with each side pondering and second guessing the opponent's move, and plotting its own counter-strategy way in advance. The strengths of the story lay in its effortless balance between brawn and brain, with action left to the likes of Andy On, who played Han Xin, a general who jumped ship and swap loyalties for appreciation, and even Jordan Chan himself to bring along that rebellious streak always out to look for a good fight. But the spotlight was definitely on Anthony Wong as Xiang Yu's counselor Fan Zeng and his rival Zhang Lian, played by the very charismatic Zhang Hanyu, serving on the side of Liu Bang.

Both men inevitably stole the show for their brainy schemes to allow their respective masters to gain a leg up against the opponent, and the shifting advantages made this film very much engaging to sit through, culminating in their initial face to face meeting at the iconic Hong Gate which is filled with treachery, betrayal, and a simultaneous five game of Go that serves as the highlight. And this came pretty early in the film as well, in fact setting the stage for more plotting outside of this one time event, that will serve as the catalyst for an elaborate, extrapolated scheme.

Daniel Lee seemed adamant this time round in balancing action with plot, and has his craftsmen to thank for in setting up gorgeous looking interior sets with CG landscapes, forts and castles that no longer exist, that didn't look as fake as those found in his earlier two films. Cinematography by Tony Cheung was also beautiful, especially with its shadow and light play and balance, allowing the film to stand out as one of the more gorgeous looking films to capture the action on screen, and the quieter moments that Lee's story called for when exploring options, and its characters.

Between the two leads who play the rivals Xiang Yu and Liu Bang, Feng Shaofeng seemed to have a lot more spectrum in showing Xiang Yu's obsessive and ruthless side, as compared to the Leon Lai, whose singular expression served him well in this role of Liu Bang of having his truest innermost thoughts held extremely close to his chest, nuanced in a way that will make you sit up and evaluate just who amongst the lot is the master schemer. And then there's Anthony Wong versus Zhang Hanyu, veterans in their respective film markets playing opposing strategists, chewing up the scenery with their sheer screen presence, although the latter actor did edge out on screen charisma thanks to a longer screen time that allowed audiences to understand a bit more about Zhang Liang, as compared to Wong's portrayal of Fan Zeng who seemed more like an eccentric shaman.

If there's a weak link in the film, it's the unfortunate introduction of Liu Yifei's character Yu Ji, as the lover of Xiang Yu who should also have some sort of romantic dalliance with Liu Bang to further their rivalry, but this was not quite to be since it wasn't fleshed out in detail. It could have brought the hatred between the men to another more personal level but that was not to be, instead the Yu Ji arc can be totally omitted, and not serve to diminish the story any one bit. I suppose Liu Yifei is included as a need to balance the level of testosterone in the film.

But the payload of the film, even if you've been entertained by the bloodbath and battle of wits on screen, came in the final act that truly sealed this as a masterpiece effort from Daniel Lee. It hammers home points about the wielding of power and how man's pursuit of that absolute leads to natural paranoia as seen in so many madmen dictators, that the mantra of trusting no one rings home, giving rise to regrets and remorsefulness in not having done better than to succumb to the trappings that power brings about, with what price ambition. And the tying up of some loose ends, with nuances now magnified, served to unmask true intentions, and that sometimes one can never know the truth about someone, until perhaps it's a little too late.

White Vengeance delivers an epic piece of history slowly

[rgblakey · 5/10 · 6 September 2012]

The Asian film market deliver some of the biggest epic action period films in the industry. In addition they usually follow some piece of actual history which is the case in the latest White Vengeance. Will this epic action piece of history live up the normal quality experience they are known for?

White Vengeance follows the story of two brothers contending for supremacy during the fall of the Qin Dynasty during the events of the Chu-Han Contention and the Feast at Hong Gate. As expected this film delivers the scope and scale needed to bring this historical story to life. At first the film seems to struggle a bit with too much going on to keep up with itself without getting cluttered in confusion. This seems more due to just too much historical information stuffed into one film. If you are not all that aware of the history, it's a bit hard to follow. If you are aware of it or just able to take the journey and not worry about some aspects then this film works really well. The first half does deliver the action, but still manages to take its own sweet time to develop the characters and direction. The clever nature of the story makes it a bit more than just your average martial arts epic, but instead a clever woven tale that plays like the game of wits. The battles feel as epic as they are intended to be, but still keep a bit of a personal touch as opposed to just the pile of mindless soldiers killing each other.

There is a love story side of this film that just seemed to slow everything down and not all that necessary. This isn't the best of this genre to come along, mostly due to some of it's slow pace and runs a bit longer than it really needed to be, but is entertaining. If you are a fan of the epic martial arts period pieces then you should give this one a try.

http://www.examiner.com/movie-in-dallas/bobby-blakey

The best Chinese historical epic ever

[honmenyan1 · 10/10 · 12 December 2011]

This movie reminds me the classics by Akira Kurosawa. It contains a big surprise at the end. White Vengeance is about two Qin dynasty military strategists trying to trick opponents by using human weakness(..and more). Though it's not truthfully based on the well-known Qin dynasty story, the action moves on smoothly and maintains the suspense quite well. See it to believe and see it to appreciate the old Chinese wisdom.

Quote from Sun Tze's The Art of War:

Thus the highest form of generalship is to balk the enemy's plans; the next best is to prevent the junction of the enemy's forces; the next in order is to attack the enemy's army in the field; and the worst policy of all is to besiege walled cities.

Therefore the skillful leader subdues the enemy's troops without any fighting; he captures their cities without laying siege to them; he overthrows their kingdom without lengthy operations in the field.

insecurity

[dumsumdumfai · 5/10 · 21 February 2013]

The atmosphere are mostly well done.. but the story kind of dragged on.

The story revolves around a famous meeting between 2 top generals vying to inherit a war torn China.

All the setup leading up to the meeting is just alright introducing the characters, the sides and the supporting cast. But this HK movie has the same tendency as others .. that it is too greedy and wants to have a bit of everything.

While I enjoy the tension leading up to the meeting. The meeting itself has to have some action - a bit too much. The 5 chess match is alright, but they are moved by 2 menacing grunts. A bit more imagination could be used here .. why not have a lavish meal and dance around smiling conversations with the chess match.

Then it meanders from twist to twist - showing every bit (and taking too much time). Then the whole tone shifted heavily towards a love story ending that was planted with a 10mins long scene in the first half. So about 20min too long for me.

And Leon doesn't quite fit the scheming type. He is not that evil looking, not even a hint.

A Historical Rivalry Movie Full of Contrasts

[3xHCCH · 8/10 · 14 September 2012]

I was fortunate enough to have caught this film during a long haul flight from Nagoya to Detroit. The English title was nondescript and did not hold much promise in itself. But luckily, I took that chance and witnessed a grand film inspired by an episode of Chinese history with some personal significance.

It is said that our family line extends from Liu Bang, the first emperor of the Han Dynasty. It was very interesting to see him portrayed in a movie for me to get a further idea of who this illustrious ancestor was.

The movie is set in the waning days of the Qin Dynasty. The impulsive Xiang Yu (Feng Shaofeng) and the compassionate Liu Bang (Leon Lai) lead the forces against the last Qin Emperor. But both of them also aspire to become the new Emperor themselves, leading to confrontation of military strategy and wits. There is also the additional gambit of a common love interest in the character of Yu Ji (YiFei Liu) to further spice up the conflicts.

The secondary characters of the respective wise advisers for each camp were as much front and center as the two lead characters. These were the elderly blind Fan Zeng (Anthony Wong) for camp Xiang Yu and the younger but equally masterful Zhang Liang (Hanyu Zhang) for camp Liu Bang. Watching their climactic battle-royale on the Weiqi game board was quite a spectacle to watch as filmed, although admittedly my lack of knowledge about game mechanics detracted from full appreciation. Those vague English subtitles with seemingly random numbers did not help at all.

It took time to get into the story as the story was told in flashbacks and the characters could all look the same until you get to know each one in more detail. The director Daniel Lee helps us by employing some color-coordination in the costumes to distinguish whose forces were whose. Once you get into the groove of the story, it will draw you into its spell.

The contrast of both rivals to the throne was emphasized up the film's conclusion, as one ended with melodramatic romance, and the other ended steeped in political paranoia. It was a well-told story overall, although we know this could not have been how it exactly happened in real life. It does make me want to read more about the actual historical events that inspired this movie.

Enjoyable battle of wits

[simon_booth · 8/10 · 26 April 2012]

Tells the story of The Banquet at Hongmen, an event that marked the transition from the Qin Dynasty to the Han Dynasty in Chinese history.

Liu Bang and Xiang Yu are leaders of insurgent forces who work together to defeat the last remnants of Qin forces, but then each set their eyes on becoming emperor of the new dynasty. They both turn to their respective strategists, Zhang Liang and Fan Zeng, for advice. The advisors each formulate plans in an attempt to ensure their sponsor's success over the other, and engage in a battle of wits and cunning to achieve victory over their opponent. The opposing forces both put their plans into action starting at a banquet at the Hongmen Gate. Whose cunning will prove to be greater, whose foresight will be longer? Who will emerge victorious in the end? White Vengeance is a gorgeous production of suitably epic proportions, built around a well written script that succeeds in bringing these historical events and characters to life. The battle of wits, cunning and bravado makes for a great story, and the cast have been well chosen to fill their roles. Anthony Wong is particularly good as the aging, blind strategist, but the show is nearly stolen by Jordan Chan in a supporting role that gives the film two of its most memorable scenes. The presence of Liu Yi-Fei, whose face is surely the strongest argument for the existence of God that man has conceived, is of course most welcome.

The film has a number of battle scenes, which are generally very well executed. CGI is obviously used to make the massive armies seem truly massive, but is mostly eschewed for any close-up combat situations, with good old-fashioned people and the occasional wire, and just the occasional bit of CGI when somebody needs a sword, arrow or spear to go through them without alarming the film's insurance company unduly. This makes for some highly satisfying scenes of combat and carnage.

It's the dialogue and the characters that make the film though. Unfortunately, things do get a bit derailed towards the end with some scenes that are simply overcooked, and performances that lose their subtlety and break the illusion that we really are witnessing events as they unfurled. It's a shame, but the flaws aren't sufficient to undo the good work that comes before them.

Recommended.

Amazing...

[paul_haakonsen · 8/10 · 24 December 2015]

"White Vengeance" (aka "Hong men yan chuan qi") is right up alongside with epic movies such as "Hero" and "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon", and it is a shame that it didn't get as much attention as they did. "White Vengeance" is a grand epic and it completely took me by surprise.

The story, simply put, is about two brothers who become pitted against each other in a battle for rulership. There are too many subplots in the movie to fully do it justice with a synopsis. It has to be seen firsthand on the screen.

There is just so much detail in the movie, not only in the storyline, but also in the costumes, sets and props. It is simply overwhelmingly breathtaking.

I was impressed with the cast, and they had some big Hong Kong names on the cast list. Anthony Wong, Leon Lai, Jordan Chan and Andy On. I have never seen Jordan Chan in an epic movie, but he really held his own and did a great job. Yifei Liu also did an amazing job with her role.

"White Vengeance" was captivating and interesting from the very beginning and up to the very end. So you will not really be noticing that the movie actually runs for more than two hours.

This is definitely a MUST watch if you enjoy Asian epic movies.

Not historically accurate, but still a highly recommendable ancient historical Chinese film

[KineticSeoul · 8/10 · 21 August 2013]

Two sword brothers of war in a historical Chinese era, running into conflicts with each other and because of a certain girl. Sounds familiar? Well it's because it has been done before many times in films. But that is just a small part of this whole well crafted film It actually has a great strategic and tactical story with characters that stand out. One is a Liu Bang who is a calm, courageous, collective, soft and yet strong-willed leader that also has a sense of wisdom and understanding. And yet manipulative and a sufficient schemer as well. His men are loyal to him for his will and heart. Liu Bang is backed up by a wise historical strategist that went by Zhang Liang, who was known for being diligent and clever. While the other side is is a powerful, confident, tough, charismatic and very ambitious leader that has good leadership qualities named Xiang Yu. His army is loyal to him for his strengths(plus he gets involved in the battles bravely). And a very wise counselor on his side that goes by Fan Zeng or Yafu. Who was even wiser than Zhang Liang was his right hand man and his mentor. Personally I liked Xiang Yu's character more, at least how he is portrayed in this film. It's a Chinese historical war movie with some exaggerated elements that has strategy and tactics. And both sides leaders are from Chu. Despite the situation it seemed like Zhang Liang or Fan Zeng should have been the emperor. Anyways both sides are on a race to defeat Qin army and save the people of Xiangyang while winning over the people. After the Chu lost to the Qin. The story is a good combination of brains, brawn, strategy, tactics and building strength and reputation within the two armies. In another words this isn't a narrow head to head, battles to battles movie. But a entertaining film that has a good story and substance and not just crazy swords and spears fighting. It's even more entertaining if the viewer doesn't know much about the outcome to this history. The whole thing is a grand-scale and thrilling power struggle. Where it doesn't pick a side but stays in the middle ground for the most part. Although it does focus more on Liu Bang's side a bit for a reason. Now a lot of what goes down in this film might be exaggerated or fictitious. A bit more development with the characters would have been better. And Crystal Yifei Liu character just seemed to be there just to add a bit or irrelevant romance element in. And give the two lead characters a bit more motivation. But it's still a enthralling, thrilling. fast-paced(for the most part) and entertaining film, sometimes that is what matters. It even had a high production and budget. Highly recommended to any one that wants to see a war/action film with substance.

8/10

Melodramatic Drivel

[raywmarshall · 14 May 2014]

This could have been a great movie. However, its confusing plot, and melodramatic pauses result in it being little more than an endlessly underachieving monotonous epic bore. The setting during an interesting period in Chinese history held a lot of promise, but the dialogue too often degenerated into uninteresting drivel. The battle scenes came across as ridiculously fake and implausible. The film did have a couple of redeeming factors. The costumes were sumptuous and made me feel that my twenty first century wardrobe might be lacking in something. Furthermore, some of the sets projected a real sense of the era being depicted. Unfortunately, the computer generated images seemed to lack the depth of field and believability that one would expect even from a computer game. Despite its few strengths, I would recommend giving this one a miss.