8: The Mormon Proposition (2010) User Reviews

it gives some good facts and interviews, if maybe too many strands put together cheaply

[Quinoa1984 · 6/10 · 20 June 2010]

8: The Mormon Proposition is not an excellent be-all-end-all look at the saga of the passing of Proposition 8 (what ended same-sex marriage) in California. The direction of the film isn't always in the most... I won't say professional, but that the filmmakers don't use the budget to the best of their abilities. There is music that sounds grafted on from a poor-man's synthesizer, and some of the editing and visual effects is done for lessor effect. On this count only is the previous poster on IMDb correct.

But the film is about something important- or maybe many things crammed into 80 minutes (this, too, is something of a flaw, but not a major one)- which is that the rights of people were taken away from them because a largely select group (over 70% of funds donated to get Prop 8 passed were from Mormons or groups affiliated with them somehow) see that gays and lesbians don't choose to be gay, and are unholy and so on and so on. That or, of course, the 'sanctity' of marriage and how that affects their beliefs. It should be more complex, but in reality it just comes down to money, and an effective (hateful) ad campaign.

Contrary to what the previous poster said, I don't think the film actively sets out to paint all Mormons as hateful, or that the film itself is hateful. The filmmakers basically let the interviewees and the subject matter speak for itself. I don't even think, after seeing the film, that every single Mormon out there is bad or intends harm. But the organization itself, clearly, is corrupted by its top brass, who definitely feel the need to base their belief structure based on the old axiom "God Told Me So", specifically their 'direct line' to the Holy Lord. That this was such a passionate deal to have so much money funneled into the campaign is an insult to the masses of people who just want to marry, for love or (in other cases) for the same protections and rights that marriage affords.

Again, sometimes the documentary can go off a little from its primary subject, albeit for not all ill-intentions or bad results. There's a large chunk of the film, for example, that delves into the suicide rate of Mormons, and the horror for someone who is Gay and a Mormon (specifically a few are interviewed whose parents donated for Prop 8), and those who are homeless or on the streets as teens who are gay and rejected from their homes. This ultimately worked for me because the film is as much about the people and the high emotions running through the issue for all involved (those who are reasonable about it and those who are, well, Senator Buttars and his foaming-at-the-mouth ilk), but the film definitely works best when it tells this story of Prop 8. How did it get passed and what was the outcome.

Spread love, not hate

[swell · 8/10 · 20 June 2010]

I rarely take the time to actually write a review for a movie, but seeing as there are few, it is necessary. First of all, I wouldn't consider this a "hate" film, as previously stated. This is a film about denial of basic human rights and the out-of-state religious organization that donated millions of dollars to put an end to those rights. In fact, more than getting a sense of hatred towards Mormons, the documentary gave me a sense of sadness for the many gay Mormon teens that were driven to suicide or the Mormon families that were forced to donate upwards of $50,000- their whole livelihood- to a campaign so that they would not lose their membership to their church.

But more than anything, this film gave me a strange sense of hope. Sure, Proposition 8 passed. But seeing all of the happy marriages and learning that basically the only reason it did pass was because of the LDS Church gives me hope for a future of equality. I'm happy to live in a state that believes in human rights (MA) and I hope that movement will spread. Nothing will make you believe in gay marriage like Tyler Barrick and Spencer Jones (interviewed in the film). Like Tyler said, "it's simple- this is just love." This film will make you want to fight for that.

Take The Power Back

[valis1949 · 8/10 · 29 December 2010]

8:THE MORMON PROPOSITION provides a blue print as to how Big Money in one state orchestrated the outcome of a propositional ballot in two other states. Out of state Mormon influence and money flooded two state campaigns, Hawaii and California, and managed to sway the election to their political and religious agenda. This film emphatically demonstrates how this type of foreign influence strikes at the heart of the American democratic process. Regardless of your personal beliefs on the Gay Rights Issue, this film is really more about how our system of elections can be subverted by deceptively diabolical political marketing practices. Clearly, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is acting as a political action committee, and this form of ethical extortion by a rich and powerful tax exempt organization needs to be stopped. Supreme Court, where are you?

A Must-See Documentary That Exposes Truth and Light,

[MovieMan250 · 9/10 · 2 July 2010]

I saw this film at a screening in Park City during the Sundance Film Festival in January of 2010. Admittedly, I am LDS and I identify as a gay man. Obviously, this is a movie that I wanted to see because I had these two elements of my life fighting with each other, both in private (in my own mind) and in public (LDS Church vs. the anti-Proposition 8 movement). First of all, the movie definitely has an agenda. However, the title does not lie; sometimes the truth hurts. Being involved in both of these communities fairly actively, I can tell you that this movie brings the truth about Proposition 8 to light. Where the film crosses the line is in its sometimes sensationalistic portrayal, in how the facts are presented to the audience. The truth is presented, but not in the best way or method. Reed Cowan (director) did try to interview LDS Church officials and spokespeople, but his requests were either denied or ignored. Can people really blame him for this? Criticisms of his film being "too biased" are without knowledge of this fact. A lot has to be said for the documents from the 1990's proving that the anti-gay marriage group in Hawaii was created, staffed, and funded through Mormon means. It may all have been done legally, but that doesn't mean that it was right or moral. A lot of criticism of the film points to the "picking-and-choosing" of which phrases from these documents were highlighted on screen and pointed out to the viewer. This is easily remedied: to see the documents, simply go to "Mormon Gate dot com" and read them. The documents speak for themselves.

Informative, Even If It Has a Clear Stance

[gavin6942 · 6/10 · 17 March 2011]

Let me get this out of the way. The film has some factual errors. The narrator claims that Latter-day Saints believe God was once a human being and that after he died he "became a god where he began marrying spirit wives and having spirit offspring" and that "we, too, can become gods on our own planets, filled with our own spirit wives and children." In reality, they believe that marriage must be performed on Earth, not after death, and that women will be resurrected as well as men (hence no "spirit wives").

Also, the film mentions that gay children "can't have children biologically". Nothing biological stops a homosexual from reproducing. This was really more of a misstatement on the narrator's part, though, as their intention was clear (that gay sexual practices do not lead to procreation).

I think money in politics is a serious issue, and religious money in politics is even more questionable. The Mormons own an NBC affiliate, too? That seems very odd to me. And yes, the film has an agenda. It clearly has lot of bad and no good to say about he Mormons, and is strongly pro-homosexual rights.

Indeed, it puts an unfair amount of blame on the Mormons for Prop 8. While they did contribute a large amount of cash, they were not alone. But still, the church making people donate their life savings for such a stupid thing... awful. And the Mormon torture chair? When you watch this, if you keep in mind it is only one side of the issue, I think it is a decent film. Nothing is really factually incorrect about it, and even if you do not support same-sex marriage, you might have a problem with religious views permeating politics. And that is clear here.

Very important exposure of mixing religion and government

[carlasoccer06 · 10/10 · 26 July 2010]

Cowan's compelling film-making makes this a one-of-a-kind look into the dirty politics of religious groups who have an axe to grind with people they disapprove of. What I found most true to life about the film was that it did not paint all Mormons as anti-gay or hateful, but it exposed the level of power the Morg has over it's members, and how the leaders of the church are willing to exert that power to their own ends. It was clear that immense pressure was put on all LDS church members regardless of their personal feelings. This is an outrageous hypocrisy by a church that claims such strong beliefs in a person's right to free will and agency.

I am tired to seeing everyone call this film "biased." Simply taking a stand on an issue does not make it biased - it does not unfairly or inaccurately represent the opposing argument or its proponents; that would make it biased. The IRS has listed the LDS church on a list of organizations up to have their tax-exempt status revoked because of their flagrant violation of tax laws in connection with the Yes on 8 campaign. This was Cowan's main point - that the LDS church did wrong in giving so much money, and now the IRS is validating the claims Cowan showed in the film.

I highly recommend this film, and if you like this I also recommend Kirby Dick's Outrage, Sandi Simcha Dubowski's Trembling Before G-d, and Daniel G. Karslake's For the Bible Tells Me So.

Nothing new, but might still shock the viewer

[itaigreif · 6/10 · 22 October 2011]

"The Mormon Proposition" gives us nothing the news haven't already: in an effort to defeat the gay equality in California, the Mormon Church spent millions and millions of dollars and helped pass Prop. 8. Aside from a short clip at the beginning, showing that the church did something similar in Hawaii, but was more successful in hiding it, the movie provides no journalistic integrity to its narrative. It is merely the (often tearful) testimonials of gays, ex-Mormons, and gay ex-Mormons, of the persecution against gays and the homophobia the church spreads. They make a powerful statement, but provide no insight, no solution, and no interesting perspective. It will not convince those that aren't already convinced, and it's a shame the church did not feel oblige to respond to it.

Revelations---of hate and intolerance

[lawrenceb56 · 9/10 · 28 June 2010]

A powerful little film. Not stylish or in any way long on pretense, but it packs a punch because it takes hatred and religious bigotry on and asks no quarter. The Mormon conceived and backed plans to take on gay marriage in Hawaii and California were carefully orchestrated and done with the hope of remaining out of the spotlight in order to avoid any negative attention. Guess what Church Leadership? This film brings it all around full circle---well, BYU not being invited to join the PAC 10 as an affiliate is really a powerful example of "what goes around, comes around," since this is a church that keeps it foot planted squarely on the necks of gay people but looooves it's football. The great Universities of the PAC 10 can't tolerate a church owned campus that fosters intolerance. How's that for a kick in the stomach Coogs? Cudos and sincere thanks to Mr. Cowan and also to Sundance for leading the way once again and recognizing a fine piece of work. See it and prepare to get mad.

How many votes does a church have?

[yuukanna · 7/10 · 4 June 2019]

I remember Proposition 8 - my LDS family supported it strongly, and often got strong responses due to that support. This film was enlightening about some of the things I didn't see first hand. It shows HOW the church supported the proposition and others like it. While the film does have an agenda, it shows many different perspectives. Whether you were for prop 8 or against it, it's undeniable that the LDS church had a heavy hand in it's support. It shows the influence the leadership of the church have over it's membership. Members will follow church leadership as they would follow words directly from god himself. It's important to recognize the role played by the church in subjects like this, just as it is important that they own up to the consequences of that support, whether they find the results in their favor or otherwise. The point of this film isn't about how one feels about Gay marriage, that was point of the proposition. The point of this film is how you feel about a religious organization's influence over it's members votes and whether or not you feel this influence should be public knowledge.

"No man, that's not history"

[manaen · 1/10 · 22 July 2010]

As a voter living in SoCal, I'm tired of hearing that I should be barred from making whatever legal donations to political and social causes that I wish because I'm LDS (Mormon). As repeatedly stated without refutation, the LDS Church contributed a total of about $200k to defending marriage in Prop 8's victory -- most of which was non-cash support. The rest of so-called Mormon money, on both sides of this issue, came from private voters. So what? Under what pretense am I to be denied my right to participate?

Please consider the following:

* 10% more money was contributed to oppose Prop 8 than to support it ($44 million vs. $40 million). Any Mormon influence on donations to support Prop 8 only served to narrow Prop 8's di$avantage, but did not overcome it. Now we have this film that would have us believe that the side spending *less* money bought the election.

* Donations from outside of California opposing Prop 8 were double the amount supporting it. This means that Californian donations were more supportive of Prop 8 than were funds from the outsiders who sought to influence us. This is another indicator that Californians supported Prop 8 generally -- not just the Mormon minority -- in opposition to the noisy minority that sought to buy this election with greater spending.

* Some say that Mormons donated too much in this election. By what standard? I agree that others did not donate their fair share but I do not see how our donations should be curtailed because of others' stinginess -- at least until celebrity donors also are curtailed.

Given that Prop 8 won 52% to 48% and that total donations were $40 million in favor to $44 million against: $1.20 was donated for every opposing vote vs. $1.00 donated for every supporting vote. So, which side donated in excess? It would be more reasonable to complain that the losing side donated too much, based upon their spending per vote.

* The total adult Mormon population in California only equals about half Prop 8's margin of victory. If all of us had voted and had voted for Prop 8 (polls showed that 1 in 10 Mormons opposed it), our votes still would not have affected the outcome.

* The kind of pressure to support Prop 8 this film propounds was not known among us in reality. E.g., in my local ward (congregation), a man that spoke out against Prop 8 in our scripture class every week was allowed to drone on uncensured and uncensored. Shortly after the election, he was called to be president of our Sunday School (which admittedly could be seen as punishment).

* The Catholic Archdiocese of San Francisco contacted the Mormon leaders to ask for our help with Prop 8. We were happy to make common cause with them (well, as noted above, 9/10 of us were).

* Mormon support for Prop 8 is based in, as the bumper stickers said, supporting marriage. The Church supports equal civil rights for homosexuals, including parity of civil unions: the Salt Lake City council recently passed an anti-homosexual-discrimination measure. The LDS Church endorsed it; apparently, there wasn't room in this film for this inconvenient truth.

* Polls showed that 70% of California's black voters and ~ 52% of our Hispanic voters supported Prop 8 and their votes -- not the pro-Prop-8 90% of the 2% Mormons make of California's population -- are enough to account for Prop 8's margin of victory.

* Prop 8 garnered 1 million more votes in favor than did the similar Prop 22 in 1998.

Film makers are free to write and produce whatever they want. I just wish they wouldn't confuse the audiences of this one with their street theater of *acting* like this was a documentary.

But this, too shall pass. To review:

1986. Mark Hoffman is arrested for murder and for forging documents that appeared to relate to LDS history. A national publication says that this "rocked" the Church's foundation. People breathlessly awaited the collapse of the restored Church. Now, nobody remembers him.

And the caravan moved on, healing souls.

2006. "September Dawn," a fatuous movie claiming to be based upon the massacre at Mountain Meadows is released. People breathlessly awaited the collapse of the restored Church. It shortly was seen as too specious to be taken seriously. Now, nobody remembers it.

And the caravan moved on, healing souls.

2010. "8: The Mormon Proposition," a fatuous movie claiming to be based upon Prop 8's campaign and election is released. People breathlessly await the collapse of the restored Church. It shortly will be seen as too specious to be taken seriously. Soon, nobody will remember it.

And the caravan moves on, healing souls.

(BTW, this is nothing new: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Victim_Of_The_Mormons_3.jpg)

Had me crying and made me furious!

[preppy-3 · 8/10 · 21 June 2010]

Frightening documentary on how the Mormons got Proposition 8 (making same-sex marriages illegal) passed. It shows a church secretly getting out the message to all Mormons that gays and lesbians are evil and don't deserve to be married. It covers this with interviews with people involved in the battle and shows how much Mormons hate gays and lesbians. Also they interview a happily married gay couple. Their love for each other comes flying through...and also their sadness when Prop. 8 was passed. Seeing these two men fighting back tears while explaining how the proposition almost destroyed them was heart-wrenching. I broke down crying (and quite a few of the other people in the theatre lost it too). It also made me furious showing how these monsters got their hateful agenda passed. In a way this WAS uplifting too. We now KNOW how they did it--and will make sure it never happens. Powerful and moving.

A giant commercial

[DamnYouGoogle · 5/10 · 10 September 2010]

I am not a homophobic person. I believe in equal rights for everyone whether they be white, black, gay, straight, poor, rich, shark, or bear...but that doesn't change the fact this movie is a giant pro gay marriage, anti-LDS commercial, anyone thats read a paper in the last 3 years already knows everything this movie has to offer therefore I cant give it more than a 5/10 its heart is in the right place, but it's execution is preachy, melodramatic, and long winded....never good for a documentary in my humble opinion. Its 78 minute running time feels like 5 hours and in every essence of the word this film is a giant commercial

When history is clear enough to see the damage we have done, we will weep.

[lastliberal · 8/10 · 13 August 2010]

The time for good men and women to stand up and be counted in the fight for humans rights has been heard over and over again throughout the world. The fight for Jews in Nazi Germany, for African Americans in the United States, and for women here and throughout the world goes on. The front lines of the battle now in this country is for full and complete rights for gays and lesbians.

The church, in all it's various names and forms, have been seen throughout history as one of the largest groups either ignoring those whose rights were being violated, or have been complicit in the violations. Here, in this film, we see the Mormon Church joining with the Catholic Church to raise millions to fight against human rights for gays and lesbians in California.

This spectacular documentary shows how these churches hid behind a shell group to fight Proposition 8.

The hate messages of the Mormon faithful was obvious. The church spread their lies, and the sheep just followed.

The worst abuses by the Mormon Church are too horrific to comment on. You have to see the film to understand the cruelty of this so-called religion. They are no different today as the Catholic Church was in the 16th Century.

The bottom line is that the Mormon Church will see that their $22 million spent to spread hate will be money wasted.

prop h8

[lee_eisenberg · 8/10 · 1 February 2011]

Reed Cowan's "8: The Mormon Proposition" looks at how the Mormon Church contributed to the infamous Proposition 8, which banned same-sex marriage in California. Supposedly nothing more than a religious organization, the LDS has spent years acting as a political action committee to push hate-filled acts. Interspersed with focus on Prop 8, the documentary looks at life inside Mormonism, and how many gay youths end up homeless in Utah (that Chris Buttars is a REAL CREEP).

A strange irony to this supposed "defense" of marriage is that gays and lesbians can love each other just as much as heterosexuals can (to be certain, Massachusetts, where same-sex marriage is legal, has the lowest divorce rate in the country). Also, another person involved in pushing Prop 8 was Rick Warren, who more recently encouraged the law in Uganda that called for executing gays.

No, it's not the best documentary of all time, but still one that I recommend, just in case people thought that homophobia was dying out. Dustin Lance Black narrates and George Takei appears in footage, while various gays and politicians get interviewed.

Huh, a religious sect that covets power and manipulation; whodathunkit?

[blackbonedangel · 8/10 · 11 September 2010]

Hey, did you hear the good news? Jesus Christ did in fact return to life and was here in these very United States! Also, this guy, Joseph Smith said he found some tablets in the forest or something like that, but nobody ever actually saw them other than Mr. Smith, and now he can have as many wives as he wants! Oh, you didn't hear this? Well, then you're either a logical human being or, more likely, simply not a member of the Mormon church.

So God said that one guy making out with another guy is wrong, so it HAS to be an absolute truth, right? Well, in that case once my daughter hits a certain age I'll be sure to pimp her out, that is if she doesn't mouth off to me and I stone her to death, two things that are promoted in the Bible as God's word; and lets not forget that wonderful concept of man's domination of all on earth leading to such marvelous things as species extinction and global warming (but that's just made up, right? Sort of like an all powerful being; IRONY ALERT.) In case you couldn't get the hint, I am an Atheist, have been for about 10 years now. It wasn't particularly hard work to realize that there is, was nor will there ever be a god in any sense. Sure, some of the mythology from some religions are interesting from a purely story telling aspect, loves me some Norse mythology, but to read a book and take every word written as factual truth is just beyond ridiculous and, obviously, dangerous to the rights of human beings.

Watching the documentary, and seeing the Morons, I'm sorry, Mormons go from door to door surveying people one can't help but recall the treacherous and manipulative methods of the Ku Klux Klan in the early 1900s; they would go from door to door and ask people vague questions; do you love your country? do you love god? do you love your children? etc, etc. Well if you do, SIGN THIS AND JOIN OUR CLUB! and, unfortunately, a ton of people fell for this scheme. It's all about misinformation and fear, really; control the fearful and you have power absolute. Tell them that their children are in grave danger if a man is allowed to marry a man and, unfortunately, 8 times out of 10 they'll vote for whatever you're pushing. This idea that if homosexual couples are allowed to marry will bring about the demise of the United States and all it stands for, you know...the whole every man born equal thing, is so unbelievably absurd that it's making Camus role over in his grave.

I'm not a Stalinist Atheist. I don't feel that if you eliminate religion from the world it would make it a better place (I don't have enough faith in the human condition to be so naive.), you can believe whatever you want, you can preach whatever you feel to be your seriously hilarious truth (like not allowing blacks into your religion until 1978) but once you take your beliefs and use them to manipulate the public into voting for something that is in your best interest then you're a problem through and through. Really, though, it's, again, all a matter of controlling the fearful. I believe in an afterlife because I'm scared to death of...well, death; what happens after we die? Oh, nothing? Total darkness and no more? Well, that's too bleak, so I'll just believe that when I die I'll get all the tang I could ever want; hell, I'll even become a GOD after I die, but in order to get to this point that somebody made up 100 or so years ago I have to be a slave to a group of megalomaniacs.

Seriously? The documentary didn't tell me anything I didn't already know from reading noted science fiction author Orson Scott Card's appalling essay railing against homosexual rights; the fact that these people think that sexuality is a choice that can be reversed just goes to show how intensely they're living in their own little worlds, if this is the case, if something born into a human being is actually a choice....well, in that case you better start rounding up the blind, the deaf, the autistic and, gosh golly, why not the horizontally impaired? Yes, the Mormon church, proponents of eugenics: fantastic.

Oh well, no matter if the church was involved or not the people of California VOTED for the proposition to be put into play; yeah, and Hitler was elected in a democratic system.

The Most Informative Documentary Since "How the Grinch Stole Christmas"

[swztnpwag · 1/10 · 6 December 2010]

What a society we live in! It is unacceptable for a religious institution to take a stand on issues of morality in a democratic nation, but perfectly all right to slander said institution by omitting some facts, distorting others, and blatantly making others up. Yes, this waste of celluloid does all three in abundance. At first I was going to list all the examples here, but I would have gone far over the 1,000 word limit and lost peoples' interest. And now I see I can't include urls either. Dang.

Well, just some legitimate research of your own will reveal that many of the claims made regarding LDS doctrine, actions, and quotes are distorted or, disturbingly often, outright false. The Foundation for Apologetic Information & Research has compiled an extensive list of these on its wiki, as well as many articles about the Church and homosexuality. Of course it's biased, but seeing as this "documentary" is not only biased but completely dishonest, anyone who has seen the one and is still interested in real facts should check out the other.

The writers also failed to mention several pertinent details. Now, I don't expect anyone to discuss all the evidence that undermines their ideology, but there's a solid line between not doing that, and deliberately obscuring the truth to paint an inaccurate picture. In this case, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is portrayed as the big, bad villain stepping on a minority group's civil rights.

Never mind that it has consistently supported employment and housing rights for those with same-sex attractions even when the Utah legislature itself has not. Never mind that the organization itself did not donate a penny (btw, the rumor that the Church is losing its tax-exempt status is a myth) and that the members acted of their own free will and not all chose to donate. Never mind that its effort was made as part of a coalition including Catholics, evangelicals, Protestants, Orthodox Jews, and Muslims, and that there were 10 million Catholics and Protestants (each) in California as opposed to 800,000 Mormons. (Is it acceptable in our society to slander those religions? I didn't think so. What makes the Mormons different?) Many more important facts have been omitted, which have been listed by Kevin Hamilton and included in a wonderful article by Orson Scott Card.

TL,DR: This openly deceitful propaganda piece is a waste of your time, but if you must watch it, make sure to learn about reality's side of the story.

There are days when I think I'm being too hard on Mormonism

[JoeB131 · 10/10 · 14 September 2010]

And then I see movies like this.

If there is ever a good argument about why the silly notion of letting Churches have tax exempt status should be put by the wayside, this is it.

The Church of Latter Day Saints spent 70% of the money supporting Proposition 8, yet hid behind front groups and other useful idiots to promote their agenda of hate.

The delicious irony is that the courts have not only struck down 8, but if they appeal to the Supreme Court, they may well make it legal for the whole country. That would almost restore my faith in a God.

"It's about love (baseless accusations, mindlessness and intimidation)!

[leafnut73 · 1/10 · 17 July 2010]

Forget the fact that this movie demonizes the Mormon church in that they portray that it terrorizes gays. If you enjoy movies that focus solely on the emotional center of the brain without regard to fact or objectivity, then this one's a winner. I actually enjoyed the blatant narrow-mindedness of the narrator and his allegations of wrongdoing. I think that "It's about love" will soon replace "give peace a chance" or "can't we all get along" as the next laughable slogan. Let me sum up the evil of the Mormon church as the movie portrays it:

1. Mormon church has a belief that homosexuality is a sin (What an outrageous and radical notion for a Christian church!) 2. Church sees a societal trend that disagrees with their beliefs (shocker!) 3. Church encourages their members to speak out against a ballot initiative by volunteering their time, vote with their wallets and at the ballot box in accordance with their beliefs (again, what a controversy!) 4. Ballot measure loses in a legal election (Can you believe the crime!)

No illegality, no story, no real material, and definitely no controversy. Take the first four points listed above, add some scary music and some distorted visuals and voila, a controversial film? Unless of course you want to watch two guys crying half the time about losing their rights to marriage--even though they are still legally married. Watching the movie really felt like I was listening to my teenage daughter crying that she couldn't go out with her friends on a Friday night. Pure mindless drivel. Have we lost our ability to critically think in this day and age? These guys have one goal. Threaten the Mormon church with losing their tax-exempt status so they will abandon future plans to block the gay agenda. "It's about love!" should be replaced with "It's about intimidation!". The real controversy: which media outlets gave a favorable opinion to a film that condemns, in a legal and ethical manner, an organization's right to lawfully influence a ballot box initiative?

8 Does In Fact Equate Hate

[thesar-2 · 8/10 · 29 August 2010]

My only regret on being homosexual is that it's too obvious that I would be for both gay rights and gay's rights to marry. I would love to be a straight and stand and rally – in fact, I think I would be more "out" per se in the community and show that all should have equal rights.

But, alas, I am not heterosexual. God chose not to make me straight. Or did He?

Just kidding…of course, I'm not going to believe anyone, especially religious leaders, U.S. Senators or U.S. Senators in religious leader's back pocket like in this documentary, who say I'm confused, wicked or against what a Body of Rich Old White Males determines is right. Heaven forbid if this was 30-40 years ago and I was a black homosexual. Sure, the same rich, white governing body (probably; they look to be 150 in this movie) would prescribe pills to exorcise the flaming male within, but what would they do about my skin color?

Is there a cure to skin color? Without even referencing this movie, it's a well known fact that the LDS Church at one time spoke against and violently disavowed peoples of foreign colors. Until, of course, they changed their mind…They WHAT? Changed their minds? Why, did white folk run out of money?

I cannot follow a "religion" that CHANGES their minds, especially ones that have the name "Jesus Christ" in their title, for what has changed since Christ was resurrected?

On the flip side…#1 I am against the inequality of rights for any human, regardless of color/sexuality, so it's good that they actually changed their bigotry ways. #2: They're weak, if they feel the need to go against all they preached about. So, if this is one weak spot in their gold-plated armor, let's keep chipping. We'll eventually get what we want.

BUT…I DIGRESS…and that is exactly one of the biggest problems with the film: it's called "8: The Mormon Proposition" and for the most part it was that. After the election results, it started turning (more) anger against Mormons. And then about suicides and the ugly aftermath directly related to homophobia. And then about homelessness somehow tied to a Parent's rejection in regards to fear of homos. And then about a Senator BUTTars who spewed both racism and homophobia, on the clock. Our tax dollars hard at work, against us.

The movie should've had a different title, maybe something as corny as LDS & the GAYS, so it can, in fact, veer off to other topics with ease concerning homophobia and the dollars that make it possible.

Overall, however, the movie was well made. I never, ever take any documentaries at face value, so I can't say the entire movie made me anti-Mormon religion; the Church's Elders do a fine enough job on their own. What I do respect is when a filmmaker gives both sides, and they did as good of a job here as I could tell.

Not to say it was perfect, but at least I got to hear the opposing ads (and the making of's) and by opposing, if you hadn't figured out yet, I mean "YES on 8." Also, we saw the other side of the picket fence and heard them, as well as that BUTTars (God, that always reminds me of Butters from South Park…) and his Buffoon speech against homosexuals.

I must report: this movie does have an agenda, and it is blatantly against the Mormon Church and anyone who (IMHO: Close-minded individuals) voted for Prop 8. So, even though I agree with the director's views, I always welcome a completely unbiased documentary or point of view. Though, I know that's as rare as a kind word from Mel Gibson.

There is a lot behind the HATE 8 bill, and I would love to do my own research. That said, all I need to know is: Vote yes – not all humans are equal, Vote no – and we can evolve as man AND woman kind has done in the past.

My question is: why would any entity spend MILLIONS upon MILLIONS and preach and guilt trip people (that part I know is true) into giving into such a stance against one so-called SIN? What's more of a SIN? Wasting people's tithing on this, or spreading it around to where it's REALLY needed? And how can anyone celebrate this "victory" when Prop 8 won in 2008? Man, I hope the next generations don't look upon those recordings with the same disbelief and hatred as I do, when I watch the old "KKK" celebrations.

I'm glad Prop 8's back in the news. I'm glad it's going to go to the Supreme Court. And I'm hoping they will be looking at it more closely when it comes to the LAW and not RELIGION. Isn't that what the courts and judges supposed to be deciphering? Fact over Feeling? I shouldn't say this movie should be seen by all since it's so completely biased, but I would recommend it, at least, so you can see what some of the results were when people vote blindly.

SIDE NOTE: Yes, I'm aware almost this entire review was preached on my own pedestal. This is an opinion piece, mind you, so of course, I am going to give my views. That all said, I still tried to voice my concerns about one-sidedness and the fact no one, including myself, should blindly believe everything shoved into their faces.

SIDE NOTE 2: Earlier I regretted that I couldn't be a STR8-AGAINST-8, but furthermore, I regret I both didn't live in CA during this time, not so long ago. I would have loved to be approached by Mormons, with ties or "just regular joes" and hear what they had to say. I would've had a field day. They might have not, however.

Religion has no place in politics

[E-un · 10/10 · 6 August 2010]

Tax exempt status for any religious organization should be repealed pending investigation of political shenanigans. All current loopholes regarding what should and should not be made public should also be repealed without any regard. After all, what are they hiding if they have nothing to hide? Religious leaders love to quote that this country is "founded on separation of church and state" when it suits them. But then they think they can organize solely to sway public opinion in a political context. It's absurd and needs to be addressed immediately.

I don't care who did or didn't say what. The film-makers didn't invent Prop. 8 or the events surrounding it. It was made very public that religious powers were behind the major push of Prop. 8, and that is simply a situation that can't be permitted to happen again. Ever. Even if I had something to gain by whatever legislation.

That's what this movie was about. Pure and simple.

The idea that bad light can be cast upon the LDS church is preposterous. I've met and spoken, and been lectured and informed in detail, and worked with Mormons and ex-Mormons. Nothing in this movie contradicted my experience. The LDS is run by a brigade of out and out fanatics who will step over the line at any cost to get their way. They destroy lives, they destroy families, and they are responsible for an awful lot of hurt. Anyone who says different is an active Mormon, still under the influence of the Kool Aid, or is possibly a member of a similarly twisted "faith". Or they are a sociopath.

Having spent a lot of time in Utah, I have heard the stories of way too many suicides by High School and College kids. These stories were told by the very people that live there, and were not told in any religious context, but just because it happens too much.

The absolute bottom line is that Prop. 8 was a bad idea. Taking rights away from people is something to be ashamed of. It's no different to the LDS trying to ban Coca-Cola and coffee because they contain caffeine. (Doesn't that sound stupid?) I would never dream of telling a religious individual that they can no longer practice their faith. So how can they claim the moral high ground? It makes me ashamed that I live in this country, and it makes me ashamed to be a human being.

You should all be ashamed.

{As I write this, Prop. 8 was recently overturned. It seems that $22,000,000 and a whole lot of bankrupted Mormon families, whose children will pay their own way through college, now have a lot of egg on their faces. What goes around, comes around. Yippee ki yay, m************.}

you're either on the side of equality, or in league with the bigots

[jvframe · 10/10 · 13 August 2010]

Carla Smith Holloway writes a fantastic review - I agree completely.

In 2004 Australia's conservative dominated federal government, with the scandalous full support of the "liberal" opposing party, marched hand in hand with George W Bush by amending the Marriage Act to specifically exclude same sex couples.

Six years later, with a change of governing party, there's at least a possibility of marriage equality, but some Australian LGBT activists are being complicit in their own persecution by suggesting they might accept civil unions, rather than fight for marriage equality. I challenge them and any rational person to watch this film and yet fail to realise that marriage equality is a necessity as an option for all - not a pipe dream, nor a nicety.

While our Federal Law defines that we deserve discrimination, the Churches who hate us will continue to feel vindicated in active oppression, and too many youth will be rejected, or feel rejected, will self-harm or suicide, as a direct result.

"8: The Mormon Proposition" affirms that it's a case of you're either on the side of equality, which includes equality in marriage rights, or you're on the side of the bigots and must accept partial blame for all the harm caused by their intolerance.

This film will do good wherever it is viewed in the world.

A hatchet job by those with an axe to grind

[dvandekerk · 1/10 · 27 July 2010]

It's a well documented fact that a lot of the very influential Hollywood community is gay. The Mormons don't like homosexual activity, and stood up and said so. So they became the target.

Now, they were already a target of Hollywood. Note "Big Love" by ex-Mormon Tom Hanks. Yes, Hanks used to be a Mormon, and blames his Mormon stepmother's religion for causing the breakup with his father. That's well documented.

With this motivation, Hollywood produced and made this film. It's disgusting, one twisted half truth after another.

I speak German and this film reminds me of nothing so much as Hitler era propaganda films. They clearly used the same formula. Mix up some unrelated truth with half truths and lies and toss some shock in at the end. Watch it if you want, but you'll learn nothing here.

A Powerful Look at Social Justice and the Cardinal Virtue of Church-State Separation

[raynorgo · 10/10 · 5 December 2012]

Utah has the highest teen suicide rate. But why? Isn't it forbidden by the bible? Well, no; Samson's suicide is generally held up as a laudable event. The bible even clearly states that god granted him superhuman strength during his final moments. Therefore, god approves of suicide (at least if you take out several thousand of his enemies simultaneously). By extension, the bible gives Christians no reasons to oppose suicide bombing.

The tragedy behind Utah's youth suicide rate is quite simple once you learn that the majority of the state is Mormon. It is also profoundly and undeniably tragic. Under Mormon teachings, being gay is second only to murder under their collection of "sins." The threat of hell is certainly no match for the oppression, "reparative" therapies and condemnation from pulpits and parents alike. And yet the Mormon hierarchies aren't satisfied with tormenting those who were unfortunate enough to live in their state. They funded and supplied countless volunteers to pass Proposition 8 back in 2008. Needless to say, the pool of Mormon sheep blackmailed with excommunication amounted to tens of thousands of flyer-distributors, yellers and election-day "advisors." As anyone well-versed in political science is well aware, dedicated (or in this case, at least partially-coerced) volunteers can run circles around a smaller but more well-funded opposition.

Families sacrificed their children's' college funds, retirement funds, and whatever else was demanded of them by comfortable, affluent and above all lazy clergy. And for what? For holding back social justice, compassion and understanding for a few years until the Judge Walker of California's district court declared it unconstitutional. Are the families going to receive aid from their conservative leaders who fleeced them of so much money? I highly doubt it. Utah will be profoundly dependent on the government teat (i.e. welfare) for the near future. So much for right-wing conservatism and personal responsibility. This was religious blackmail at its most pernicious.

Or consider this - convicted mass murderers on death row and sex offenders can marry the person of their choice, but gays and lesbians cannot. That likens them to slaves in the Antebellum South, who were not allowed to marry. Like the emancipated African Americans before them, members of the LGBT community gathered in throngs to get married. To equate them to slaves and imply that they are worse than murderers is both profoundly callous and bigoted. Such discriminatory laws have no place in secular societies.

By sticking its unwanted neck into the public sphere, the Mormon community unequivocably and unforgivably violated the first amendment of the US Constitution. There can be no freedom of religion without freedom FROM religion. The Mormons would no doubt throw childish hissy fits if their tax-exempt status was revoked and they were held accountable for their pernicious actions in shoving their baseless religious beliefs on the rest of California. Yet that would only be fair. There should be no governmental representation without taxation. This guiding axiom of democracy must work both ways for healthy societies to function and thrive.

I am ecstatic that NOM is now under investigation for violating the US tax code. Justice for them, and the rest of society, is past its due date, but better late than never. Hiding financial figures and the names of one's donors is a clear sign of guilt (or at the least, a profound fear of embarrassment). As the recent 2012 referenda showed, it is only a matter of time before social justice spreads across the developed world. Religion cannot stop it, and their efforts to try only make things worse for us all (how many foster children could have been helped by the money thrown down the toilet on Proposition 8?).

I would highly recommend Marriage On Trial's re-enactment of the Prop 8 Trial to see just how flimsy and unsupported the case against marriage equality is. Black, Cowan and Greenstreet deserve our respect and admiration for bringing these clandestine truths to light.

Do more homework

[juincey74 · 4/10 · 24 July 2010]

Though this movie brought up valid points towards how religion takes too much of a "front seat" approach to bringing their own clouded views to a political issue as gay marriage, most of the movies "knowledge" of the Mormon church was greatly misleading. I being a Mormon myself do support gay marriage. Unfortunately this movie is little about being pro gay anything and more about masking a church's belief into a 1939 Nazi propaganda film. This whole notion that was forced throughout the film on how the Mormons are easily brainwashed into believing anything that's told to them by the church is ridiculous. The majority of the time watching this I cringed on how wrong they got the Mormon teachings and added nonsense that would be found in the mind of George Lucas. I gravitated to this film on the notion it would talk more about the issues of gay marriage and church standings, but unfortunately it turned into a religious bashing almost halfway through it. I will say I enjoyed the beginning where they did show how the Mormon church's involvement in banning gay marriage in Hawaii, but turned stale when they attempted to dive deeper into the Mormon belief and psyche. See it if you're curious but I doubt you would get anything out of it, if you're smart enough not to believe the "Religious" part.

An Important Film

[CarmaChan · 10/10 · 6 November 2012]

I thank the whole crew and courageous interviewees for this important film. I had no idea how bad it was, and am grateful to be informed. Before I saw this documentary, I knew that the Mormon church had poured money into California to get Prop 8 passed. It bothered me. I think churches should pay taxes when they act like that. To think of all the charitable things that could have been done with that money!

What I did not know before I saw this documentary is the depth to which the Mormon church is involved, and the horrible way they have treated their own different children. This is a must-see film for every voter who thinks Prop 8 is a good idea, and for anyone who is thinking about converting to this religion.