Fallen (1998) User Reviews

Spooky!

[RockyAKAEggin · 7/10 · 17 February 2021]

The Good:

• Denzel Washington and John Goodman are as excellent as ever and create a believable on-screen friendship.
• I really enjoyed the neo-noir style voiceovers that happened throughout the film as well as the noir themed soundtrack.
• The creepy POV shots helped to elevate the horror aspect of the film.
• Throughout the movie, the plot was intriguing and had some great tense moments.
• I loved the idea of possession throughout the film. This created some really interesting dynamics and moral choices for the characters.
• The final act is absolutely exciting, tense, and thrilling and definitely made this film a lot better.

The Bad:

• The first 10 minutes of the film felt very convoluted and confusing to me. It hardly explained itself and left a lot for the viewer to decipher.
• There were a few awkward character interactions within the first hour of the film that kinda took me out of the film.
• Although the premise of the film was very intriguing, it didn't really engage me fully until the last 45 minutes.

Overall Fallen is a very well-made and entertaining 90s thriller with a unique premise and enthralling acting. The only thing that lets it down is its slightly slow pacing and lack of fully engaging scenes in the first half...

7/10

Fallen Up

[hengir · 7/10 · 16 November 2005]

Came across this film in a video store sale bin at a giveaway price and bought it on the strength of the cast, Denzil Washington, John Goodman, Donald Sutherland and Embeth Davidtz. Found it to be surprisingly good. Not a horror film as such, no gore or unconvincing CGI effects but a gripping story with supernatural elements. There are subtle shivers, particularly the 'touching' scenes and the sense of something evil hidden behind the everyday. The setting is bleakly autumnal and it is finishes with a nice twist. If you watch the film again knowing the ending it makes more sense.

Of the acting, Goodman and Sutherland don't have much to play with but it is always good to see them in a film. Washington is very good as his normal cop character grapples with the mystery and Davidtz is excellent as the academic, scared and solitary and fallible. The scenes between Washington and Davidtz are well played. Tan Dun's music adds to the atmosphere. Well directed and well written. Well done.

Poor lost souls

[nik_trajkovski · 3 June 2002]

I have been reading with interest the comments made by others users of this film. So first, let me say that I loved the film. Interesting, well paced, excellent choice of music. The movie is unique, with a magnificent twist that almost annoys you (but I won't say anymore).

Second, some of the users making comments seemed to have missed the plot. Those people who are saying it doesn't have enough action clearly have a limited appreciation for film genres. Stick to your fast paced action movies, and don't bother writing your limited opinions about other movies genres. You don't have the mental capacity to take in anything other that brain numbing gun fights, explosions and car chases.

To say that," Goodman is smoking in the movie and I don't like smoking", OR they said "'Oh my God' in the movie and I don't like that", really has no relevance as to the validity of whether the movie was good or not. If people are so intolerant , then stick to watch lawm bowls. This is a brilliant movie that should not be missed.

All of which I like, but then, I like many different types of movies.

Long in the tooth...too bad, because the acting and the suspense are solid.

[imseeg · 6/10 · 17 August 2023]

The bad: half an hour SHOULD have been CUT OUT of it. This story has SO MANY repetitive scenes I got bored half way through. I blame the writer.

The story is about a demon that passes on from one person to another when they accidentally touch eachother. This goes on forever and ever. Pretty boring after an hour or so.

Not any good then? A pretty silly script indeed, BUT they somehow managed to suspend disbelief, because however silly this story might be, there is still a level of suspense and mystery that is quite enchanting.

More good; Denzel Washington Denzel Washington Denzel Washington. It is HE that carries this movie. It is HE who has that irrestistable charisma. It is HE that delivers another solid acitng performance. And let's not forget some other powerhouse legendary actors like Donald Sutherland, John Goodman and last but not least James Gandolfini. Actor's movie!

Mixed bag. Great actors. Silly story that is way too long in the tooth...

Better than you would expect

[Idocamstuf · 7/10 · 15 August 2003]

This was actually a pretty clever supernatural thriller. When released it failed at the box office, but has deveolped a following since. It's quite fascinating, hardly ever boring, has a nice cast, and is pretty creepy. It probubly failed due to poor marketing, because if a piece of crapp like "Hollow Man"(2000) can be a hit, this film should definately have been a hit. If you like supernatural thrillers, this will be right up your alley. *** out of ****.

Great acting, fun twist to the plot, well filmed

[secondtake · 7/10 · 10 June 2014]

Fallen (1998)

Half detective, half supernatural thriller, this movie really moves. It's clever but not preposterous, and Denzel Washington anchors the whole things with his smiling believability. This is a good one. And the rest of the cast is fabulous, from John Goodman to Donald Sutherland. The one woman is the convincing Embeth Davidtz, and there is a small role even for the late James Gandolfini.

The plot seems straight up at first, as Denzel's character, Hobbes, looks for a murderer who seems to become a serial murderer. This morphs slowly into a a supernatural evil force inhabiting people and making them bad. This grows without a sense of shock so that there is a logic gradually built up.

And the target of this evilness seems to be Hobbes, though we never quite know why. (He catches bad guys and one of them is executed at the start, but the spirit shouldn't have been bothered by this.) Hobbes of course feels that the crimes don't make sense, and his encounter with Davidtz's character, who studies angels and spirits, is a turning point.

There are of course hundreds of horror films with similar kinds of plots, and what makes this one rise above most of them is how well made it is. Credit here goes beyond Washington, though he's clearly key. The cinematographer, Newton Thomas Sigel, is excellent (he also shot "Three Kings" and "Drive") and the coherence of the complex movie is partly because of a consistent visual flow.

Director Gregory Hoblit is mostly a TV guy, but around the time of this movie he made a few others with similar success, including "Fracture" which is quite good in the same solid way and "Primal Fear" which has a terrific performance by Edward Norton.

"Fallen" does come out of a familiar mold, and that is one reason why it is satisfying (many of us know we like this kind of film) and also limited ultimately (it isn't completely fresh, after all). I suspect nearly everyone will like aspects of this, even if the most demanding viewer will groan at some of the clichés. The acting alone rises up in so many cases, the rest is easy to really like.

Supernatural thriller with strong acting and spooky atmosphere

[ma-cortes · 7/10 · 6 March 2012]

Philadelphia Homicide detective John Hobbes (Denzel Washington) witnesses the execution of a serial killer named Edgar Reese (Elias Koteas) who is sent to the electric chair . Before dieing Reese unleashes an evil spirit called Azabel . Having captured the murderous , Hobbes is convinced that cops are the chosen people and he turns up on television smiling and proud . Soon after the execution the killings start again , and they are very similar to Reese's style . Azabel's aggressive spirit is passed along with touch , as a fluid is taken into the bodies , in a crowed city of Philadelphia anyone can become villain . Things get worse , however , when Hobbes is drawn to the biblical injunction 'hide your works' and strange words on walls and corpses .

This thrilling film written by Nicholas Kazan packs intrigue , action , chills , suspense , twists and turns . Hybrid of cop-thriller and supernatural story contains solid interpretations and eerie atmosphere similarly to ¨Seven¨ including a surprising final . On a metaphorical level , this does sense AIDS and a fear of the city are central to the 90s . Very good Denzel Washington as an obstinate cop who becomes involved about cruel ominous copycat murders but slow to realize an explanation beyond the normal . Magnificent support from John Goodman , Donald Sutherland , James Gandolfini , Elias Koteas , Robert Joy , Gabriel Casseus and special mention to Embeth Davidtz . Colorful cinematography in Panavision by Newton Thomas Sigel, including the fidgety camera zooms in fascinating way . Thrilling musical score fitting to action by Tan Dumb who the next year would win Academy Award for ¨Crouching tiger , hidden dragon¨. The motion picture is well directed by Gregory Hoblit , a fine professional who works as TV , he's co-producer with Steven Bochco , as Cinema in successful pictures such as ¨Fracture¨, ¨Frecuency¨, ¨Hart's war¨; his greatest hit is ¨Primal fear¨ . Rating : 6,5 . Good film , but some moments doesn't pay off and takes much too long to get where it's going . Worthwhile watching .

Clever

[mjw2305 · 9/10 · 8 March 2004]

A chilling psychological thriller, that is cleverly written and superbly portrayed.

This film is not for everyone, you'll need patience and a real thirst for a good thriller. This film will play with your mind, it won't cover the screen with visuals and gore; that's why it works.

Sit back and be absorbed by the story, be amazed by the cast, and be shocked by the climax.

Warning, if you bore easily stay away, if you love a mind bending thriller; you won't find many better.

Fantastic and clever 9/10

Glacially slow pace kills it.

[hesketh27 · 5/10 · 9 December 2022]

When somebody writes reviews saying that a film is "slow" or "boring" I usually tend to dismiss them as being from people who prefer action pictures and have simply watched the wrong movie for them personally. On this occasion I have to agree, certainly that this is a very (and I mean very very) slow film. Unfortunately, so slow that it fails to build tension. It's a good premise that demons could use humans to commit their evil and there are a couple of genuinely chilling moments in the film. So chilling that I had to let my dog into the yard half way through and a sudden unexpected noise in the dark made me jump out of my skin. There was so much scary potential there. The cast is good as would be expected, but I can't help wonder if Denzel Washington is miscast. His "cool" laid back attitude doesn't convince. Here's a guy menaced by Satan's agents on Earth, but he doesn't seem to show the slightest fear or break into a sweat. Come on - even the bravest man would start to crumble. Seeing a quick flash of the demon inside on the face of it's hosts would have made the film far more frightening (an effect used very well in "The Exorcist"). All in all, it's an OK film but it somehow misfires. I can't put my finger on why.

By all means see it, it has it's merits, sadly not enough to make the 2 hour runtime (was it really only 2 hours??) worthwhile for me. My partner has a habit of saying "that was good" at the end of most pictures we watch. There was no comment at the end of this.

A solid thriller with good pace and nice twists that benefits from a strong lead performance from Washington

[bob the moo · 25 July 2005]

Homicide detective John Hobbes is a clean cop with a good reputation; a reputation built on many closed cases including his most recent conviction and death sentence for serial killer Edgar Reese. Moments before his death Reese starts speaking a strange language and threatens Hobbes with revenge. Gassed to death and buried, Reese is just another reason for Hobbes to be smug on television but soon murders start happening with such a level of detail that it can only be that Reese had a partner who has carried on in his vein. Investigating this only produces more impossible findings and Hobbes soon runs out of answers; however it soon transpires that things beyond the human world are at play and this is much more than murder.

I think for me, part of the joy of Fallen was that I never saw it coming. It didn't make so much as a ripple at the UK box office and it was only really when it got to TV for the first time that it appeared on my radar. Even then I knew nothing about it and it took me by surprise by just how effective a thriller it was. Watching it for the second and third time produced the same level of enjoyment and the only thing tempering it now is that the weaknesses show through. Accepting the plot is key to the success of the film and it manages to make this high concept easy to get into several different ways. Sadly at least one of these ways is by allowing the plot to make skips and jumps at times, taking easy roads and perhaps lacking logic here and there (as in logic within the universe it has written for itself). This bothered me a little bit but, to be honest, the film is engaging to the point where you tend not to notice. The thriller plot moves forward well, with solid pace and twists and turns the majority of the way.

The direction is pretty good, although the "demon's eye" view of the action got a little stale towards the end and it was perhaps an easy device to use. Washington is a big reason this film works; his performance is strong even though his character is secondary. He is a good leading man and even managed to emotionally engage me despite the material not having this as its priority. With the nature of the "baddie" there is nobody playing directly opposite him so the rest of the cast can be called "support". However this is no bad thing when you have good performances from Goodman, Sutherland, Gandolfini, Casseus, Koteas and others to rely on.

Overall this is an enjoyable supernatural thriller that works despite the high concept plot. The twists and turns are enjoyable and Washington makes an excellent leading man even though the material doesn't give him a great deal to deal with below the surface.

Predictable and average at best.

[null-13 · 6/10 · 22 August 2005]

The movie was pretty much predictable from beginning to end. The ending was predictable too. I guessed the ending almost from the beginning and definitely mid way through the movie. I also feel the movie made the demon's abilities to jump bodies too easy and made him basically invincible from the beginning of the movie, making this movie predictable. If they made him a bit more vulnerable while he was in a human form, it would have been more unpredictable and exciting. I think if they also elaborated on the demon's origin, it would have drawn the watchers closer to the movie. I know the reason why they made the demon easy to jump bodies and why they made him pretty much invincible, but i think it made the movie almost pointless and predictable. And the girl that helped Denzel, u would think that should could have had a bigger part in the movie and made it more interesting. This movie was not scary but had the potential to be.

I've never understood the hostility towards this film

[MovieAddict2016 · 7/10 · 17 July 2006]

In my opinion "Fallen" is one of the better supernatural thrillers to come out of Hollywood in the past few decades. It's smart, slick and well-acted - not exploitative or full of "shock" material (gore-wise), but rather it operates on a more intellectual level.

Denzel Washington and John Goodman are both superb as NYC cops who begin to believe a string of murders are being committed by a demon - the same demon that had earlier possessed a serial killer who was executed in the beginning of the film. As Washington investigates further he realizes this demon can jump from one person to the next (resulting in a rather eerie scene on a sidewalk in which the demon skips back and forth from each passerby). This may sound utterly silly, but the way it's filmed is what makes it effective.

The ending is a shocker and the script by Nicholas Kazan ("Reversal of Fortune," "Bicentennial Man") offers decent dialogue.

If you like atmospheric thrillers you should check this out.

Mostly Good

[gavin6942 · 7/10 · 9 October 2015]

Homicide detective John Hobbes witnesses the execution of serial killer Edgar Reese (Elias Koteas). Soon after the execution the killings start again, and they are very similar to Reese's style.

Roger Ebert gave the film a mixed review, writing "the idea is better than the execution, and... the surprises become too mechanical and inevitable." There is some truth to that. The biggest problem is just how long the film runs. There seems to be plenty of fat that could have been trimmed.

It also seems "too neat". This killer (or demon) could be going around, ruining people's lives, but he is obsessed with one cop. And rather than kill the cop or ruin his life, he first decides to drop hints on how to figure out he is a demon and how his power is transferred. Sure, you need some kind of exposition, but it just makes no sense.

Overlooked movie

[groohl · 10/10 · 11 July 2005]

This is a psychological thriller with every ingredient you could ever want for a great movie-experience in that genre. Denzel Washington acts brilliantly as the highly renowned detective Hobbes who's in for quite an experience. Co-actors, including John Goodman, Donald Sutherland and James Gandolfini also shine in this movie. Great acting, a story full of suspense and surprises, great score and some nerve-rattling scenes makes this a perfect movie worth buying for your collection. It's not only a great murder-mystery detective movie, but it probes deeper into the realms of faith, religion, philosophy and imagination and thus stands out as a movie more memorable than most. If you like "Seven" and "The Ninth Gate", you're certainly gonna like this one. I've seen it at least 6 times.

Evil has a Face

[sol1218 · 7/10 · 20 June 2005]

***SPOILERS*** Unusual thriller about evil in the world today with Det. John Hobbs, Denzel Washington, targeted by this unknown and unseen force that makes it's way from person to person with just the touch of one's hand.

Doing a documentary on convicted serial murderer Reese, Elias Koteas, the person who's Det. Hobbs brilliant detective work brought him into the death house awaiting execution. Reese asks for just a brief moment with Det. Hobbs and surprisingly sticks his hand out for Det. Hobbs to shake, he does and that sets off a string of events. In the end they would leads Hobbs to the deserted cabin in the woods to have it out with the Demon Azazel who, through Reese, had condemned him to death.

We see Let. Hobbs at the beginning of the movie "Fallen" crawling through the snow around the cabin that he was staying at obviously dying. The movie then takes us back to happier time with Det. Hobbs at the big house, state prison, attending Reese's execution as one of the witnesses. Reese not at all afraid of what's to happen to him as he's strapped into the state gas chamber calmly sings, as the gas pellets are dropped into the acid bath, the Rolling Stones song "Time is on my Side",yes it is. Let. Hobbs and his fellow cops later saw in the film Reese was right, dead right.

The movie "Fallen" mixes the occult into a big city police drama and comes out a winner by doing it. Det. Hobbs slowly begins to notices that there's something very strange in what's happening to him. At first Hobbs feels that he's being set up to be framed, possibly by his fellow policemen, for a number of murders that has his fingerprints all over the crime scene.

Hobbs tracking down a clue that leads him to unearth the files of a cop Robert Milano, the 1965 cop of the year, who like himself was somehow framed for a string of killings back in the 1960's. Milano in what seemed like, an act of depression drove out to his country home and then calmly blew his brains out. Getting in touch with the late Officer Malano's daughter Gretta, Embeth Davidzt, Hobbs finds out from her things that he'd rather not since, if believed by him, it will destroys his perception of reality.

It doesn't take Hobbs that long to realize how right Gretta is with the evil directed at him,that was released by Reese, and later his family with his brother Art, Gabriel Casseus, ending up dead from a overdose of drugs. Hobbs now a rue believer knows just what he had to do to stop this sinister force that's been on earth together with man since the dawn of creation.

Hobbs now a wanted man drives to the same cabin where Officer Malano killed himself some thirty years ago to finish the job that Malano started.There was a reason for Malano's madness but in the end he failed in what he set out to do then, destroy the evil demon Azazel. Hobbs made sure that this time around he, unlike Malano, would succeed.

Powerhouse ending that will leave you as exhausted and out of breath as it did Det. Hobbs when the evil that hounded him throughout the film "Fallen" finally reveals itself in those cold lonely and uninhabited woods. Only to find out that he,Hobbs, not it had the best hand of cards from what it, the evil, thought was a stacked deck against him.

little recognised classic

[robbik · 9/10 · 25 August 2001]

Denzel Washington gives a strong performance in this surprisingly little known gem from director Gregory Hoblit. A classic detective thriller with a demonic edge, this film managers to keep the suspense running until the very end. With one of the most dramatic and scary personal chase sequences ever brought to the big or small screen, this film has it all, including a strong cast (Donald Sutherland and John Goodman in a surprisingly convincing non-comedy role as Hobbes partner to name but a few.)

Now reduced to a cheap video rental, if you have a spare evening, watch this film. Some great lines, truly chilling storyline, and believable characters played by a superb cast, all add up to make this a movie well worth a look.

A waste of time and talent

[adrian-15 · 6/10 · 24 September 1998]

This movie tries to cash in on the gloomy atmosphere of 'Seven' and the like, with some supernatural elements added. However, the first hour or so is sleep-inducingly slow. Then, we get one unconventional and brilliant 'chase' scene, after which the film becomes a little more interesting. The ending is a cheat (it sets up a sequel which hopefully will never be made).

very unoriginal

[iron t · 3/10 · 20 August 1999]

I'd have given this film four stars if not for the fact that it's the exact same movie as THE FIRST POWER, which was exactly the same as SHOCKER, which was very similar to THE HORROR SHOW, which copied a lot from THE HIDDEN. If you haven't seen these, you're probably among those who have praised FALLEN. And if you haven't seen FALLEN, check one of those underappreciated films out instead.

A potentially great movie that falls short

[Darguz · 20 September 1998]

What could have been a great movie unfortunately ends up rather lame. The premise is excellent: A fallen angel moves from person to person, wreaking havoc and playing mind games with a police detective. There is some interesting supernatural lore and some good acting all around. But the story never really builds up to full speed, and the ending is a gross disappointment: for one thing, it's obvious about halfway through the movie, and for another, it just plain sucks. You're left thinking "That's *it*?" This movie is worth seeing, but be warned that the ending will leave you hanging.

Good suspense thriller

[GFoster · 7/10 · 2 October 1999]

Fallen, at times is a little slow but this all adds to the suspense created in this super-natural thriller which pits the excellent Denzel Washington against a fallen angel of some kind who can travel from person to person just by touch. Terrorising his family, work colleagues and innocent by-standers, Detective John Hobbes has to figure out how to stop the crimes it is committing. He can't trust anybody and the only person who can help him is an unwilling young woman who has had her fair share of torment with this 'fallen angel'. A cross between Se7en and episodes of The X-Files, this thriller entertains from start to finish although it is creepy and a little weird.

Flawed But Still Exciting

[sddavis63 · 7/10 · 19 January 2003]

Denzel Washington offers his expected strong performance in a movie that, while not without weaknesses, is still quite watchable. Washington is Detective John Hobbes, who finds himself caught up in a supernatural murder investigation that leads him further and further into danger as he pursues a demon who can move from person to person, leading him to be suspicious of almost everyone.

The story is interesting and imaginative, although the "theology" (such as it is) is extremely questionable at best. This is one of the primary weaknesses of the movie, along with the character of Gretta Milano (Embeth Davidtz), whose father died in suspicious circumstances that Hobbes believes to be connected to his current investigation. The problem is that the character of Gretta (who was supposed to be a theology teacher at a local college) was completely superfluous and added nothing to the story. Hobbes already had the thing basically figured out, and there isn't even a romance between the two (which I liked, by the way; I get tired of the required romances that Hollywood seems to feel are necessary to every movie.) The result is that the scenes involving Davidtz were - simply put - dull, because they weren't necessary. The other supporting cast members (John Goodman, Donald Sutherland, James Gandolfini) put on decent performances, although looking at Jonesy (Goodman) made me wonder if the local police in this unnamed city shouldn't have a weight requirement for their detectives!

The end result is that while there's nothing particularly frightening here, there's a lot of suspense and in answer to the question that leads into the last scene of the movie ("do you remember that I told you ...?") - actually, no I didn't, and that tied the beginning and ending together very nicely.

Overall, not a bad movie, although it could have been better.

7/10

Rare Agree with IMDb.

[lavaside-60237 · 7/10 · 2 August 2023]

This movie is a 7 if I ever saw one.

The premise is a 10.

The story written is an 8.

The problem? Denzel wasn't the right choice. It's not that he's horrible - there are just plenty of others that would have been better. His style isn't robust enough to truly sell it. Denzel has a 'cool' that can't be dropped; whereas an actor in this role who didn't have that would have been far better.

And the voice overs were a horrible choice by the director.

His shots are solid, though. A few scenes I would have edited out.

The premise for this movie is so creepy - that I wish they would have kept it on the desk until the story was a 10. The main guy needed a more involved partner. It would have been so much better with a duo like Freeman and Pitt in Seven. Unfortunately, Goodman is as miscast in this as Denzel is. And the 'he's in trouble with the captain' story line should have been junked. That cliche just drags down the original great premise.

It could have been up there with the best.

The premise is so creepy... that it carries an otherwise subpar effort.

A supernatural thriller with a great story!

[Boba_Fett1138 · 8/10 · 29 January 2005]

The great cast already hints at it, "Fallen" is a great movie.

Best way to watch this movie is to not know too much about it. Just pick up the movie and let it surprise you. It's like "Identity", the less you know about it, the better.

Director Gregory Hoblit is a great and underrated director. He knows how to get the maximum out of everything. He also directed the movies "Primal Fear" and "Frequency" and much acclaimed television series episodes for "Hill Street Blues", "L.A. Law" and "NYPD Blue".

Really great about the movie is the story by Nicholas Kazan (yes, indeed the son of...). It's supernatural but it still knows how to remain believable and realistic. The viewer never knows what he is going to get and what will happen next. This is why it is best not to know too much about this movie's story before viewing it for the first time. All of the story its surprises will work better this way.

A bit of an forgotten underrated movie.

8/10

http://bobafett1138.blogspot.com/

Great cast, and an imaginative movie

[hopalong_ · 7/10 · 27 December 2002]

This film really surprised me as it came out of nowhere...that is the director and writer was not very famous. The cast was famous enough though. The only logical explanation for the beautiful cast to play this movie is that they fell for the story, and so did I. Really enjoyable to see Goodman, Gandolphini and of course Washington.

It's dark and gloomy and will definitely demand a little imagination from the viewer. I mean, the viewer can't be very conservative and needs to be pretty open minded. I really enjoyed this movie in almost every way, it's a really good mystery/thriller.

On the downside the plot could have used some more work. There are some holes that are a bit hard to swallow. And the movie also tends to be a little "over-explained" at times, which is not necessary at all times.

To sum up...the movie is very good. I definitely recommend it!

Legitimately Creepy

[ccthemovieman-1 · 8/10 · 27 February 2006]

This gets good marks simply because it is such an interesting, involving story that hooks you right away and every time you watch it and doesn't overwhelm you with violence and gore.

Denzel Washington is appealing as always as the good guy and John Goodman is surprisingly low-key for most of the movie. All the characters are very interesting and the special effects are creepy.

The story is pure "Hollywood theology" mean also means the characters - include the heroes - in here have no clue about God or the purpose of life. Believability-aside, it film provides excellent entertainment. The visuals are decent and sound-effects are chilling in spots. As the demon sees through the eyes of people and passes by with these "whoosh" sounds, it's very effective. As mentioned, the film doesn't need a lot of violence to succeed with it's horror-type tale.

One note about the final scene. It isn't exactly clear on a couple of points so if you get confused, you aren't alone.