[on shaping surfboards by hand] Shaping boards is the only job I've ever done. Back in the 70's people used to say when you shape a board, you put your soul into it or some spiritual stuff like that. I kinda laughed but when you shape, you do get really tired. It's so much more work than machine shaping not only because it's hard labor, but because you put all out. When you say shaping, it's not just shaping using the planer. You touch it, listen to the way it's cutting, I have to hear and feel it. Otherwise I can't tell the details. Maybe you put mana into the board by hand shaping. That's why you get exhausted.