God's Not Dead 2 (2016)

Jesse Metcalfe: Tom Endler

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Quotes 

• Tom Endler : [from trailer]  If we're going to insist that a Christian's right to believe is subordinate to all the rights, then it's *not* a right!

  Judge Stennis : Mr. Endler, you are out of order, I charge you with CONTEMPT!

  [breaks his hammer] 

  Tom Endler : I accept the charges!

• Tom Endler : [after his harsh line of questioning her on the stand]  Grace, I'm sorry. I couldn't tell you. It had to come as a surprise, otherwise the jury wouldn't have been swayed by your reactions.

  Grace Wesley : So, you did have a plan.

  Tom Endler : No, you did. You stood up for what you believed in and you held on to your faith. I don't know anybody that would have done that. They were hoping to make an example of you, but instead you became an inspiration.

• Judge Stennis : Young lady, your youth is no excuse for disturbing the sanctity of this court.

  Brooke Thawley : But this case is supposed to be about me. I'm almost 17 years old; it's not like I can't think for myself. I just don't have the right to speak.

  Catherine Thawley : Brooke, what are you doing?

  Judge Stennis : Not unless you are called as a witness, young lady.

  Tom Endler : [quietly to Grace]  If I put her on the stand, what am I gonna hear?

  Grace Wesley : That she asked a question and I answered it.

  Tom Endler : Your Honor, we'd like to call Ms. Brooke Thawley to the stand.

  Pete Kane : Objection, Your Honor! Ms. Thawley is a minor. Her parents do not want her subjected to the emotional pressure of testifying against her own teacher.

  Judge Stennis : Ms. Thawley, are you willing to testify on your own behalf?

  Brooke Thawley : Yes, Your Honor.

  Judge Stennis : And do you understand that you will have to answer all the questions truthfully, regardless of your feelings, and that failure to do so is punishable by law?

  Brooke Thawley : Yes, Your Honor. I'm not afraid of telling the truth. I'm only afraid of not being able to tell it.

• Grace Wesley : So, uh, have you defended many teachers in disciplinary matters?

  Tom Endler : Nope, you're my first. Just hired on from the public defender's office.

  Grace Wesley : Criminal law? No offense, but I-I'm not a criminal.

  Tom Endler : Don't be so sure of that. Your kind of case makes everybody uncomfortable. School boards, teachers, parents. It makes them feel... yucky.

  Grace Wesley : Yucky? Is that a technical legal term?

  Tom Endler : You got a better word for it?

• Tom Endler : Grace, this is exactly what we were hoping for. I mean, this is the part where you say you're sorry, thank your lawyer, go back to your classroom, pick up your life, and move on.

  Grace Wesley : I can't do that.

  Tom Endler : Why?

  Grace Wesley : I gave an honest answer to a student's legitimate question in history.

  Tom Endler : Grace. Grace, you don't wanna do this. It's the wrong decision.

  Grace Wesley : Is it?

• Principal Kinney : [after offering Grace a deal to avoid any further legal action]  I know her. She's not gonna go for it.

  Superintendent Jim Powell : How do we make this go away and not get blood on our hands?

  School Attorney : That's the easy part. We let the ACLU do it. They'll file suit against Ms. Wesley, and if she's found liable, which she will be, then we fire her for cause.

  Superintendent Jim Powell : But the school district will certainly be named as a co-defendant. We don't have the financial wherewithal to fight that.

  School Attorney : They've already been in touch. They aren't interested in punishing the school. They want her.

  Superintendent Jim Powell : Are you sure?

  School Attorney : Trust me. They've been dreaming of a case like this.

  Tom Endler : [returning with Grace]  While Ms. Wesley apologizes for any inconvenience her actions may have caused, Ms. Wesley stands by her statements, and she does not retract or recant them, either in full or in part.

  Superintendent Jim Powell : So noted. Having little choice, this board recommends continued suspension, henceforth without pay, pending review by a court of competent jurisdiction to determine whether or not Ms. Wesley violated local, state, or federal guidelines. This proceeding is adjourned.

• Tom Endler : Grace, I'm gonna level with you. Nobody wants your case. I-I drew it because I'm low man on the totem pole in a place where seniority means everything. If, for whatever reason, you're not happy with me, you're on your own. You're free to hire your own attorney out of your own pocket. Educational law isn't exactly a common specialty.

  Grace Wesley : So, what's the good news?

  Tom Endler : I don't like to lose. And I'm willing to fight for you.

  Grace Wesley : Are you a believer?

  Tom Endler : You mean a Christian? No, but I-I think that's an advantage.

  Grace Wesley : Why?

  Tom Endler : You're passionate about what you believe. I mean, let's face it, it's why you're in trouble in the first place. But it blinds you to the realities of procedure.

  Grace Wesley : Okay.

  Tom Endler : Okay, what?

  Grace Wesley : Okay, I agree to let you represent me.

• Superintendent Jim Powell : I assume Ms. Wesley understands that this board has the power to recommend any number of disciplinary actions, up to and including termination.

  Tom Endler : [before Grace can say anything]  She does. And this board should be aware that in the event of such termination, which we would view as both wrongful and without cause, she reserves all rights of redress.

  School Attorney : I may have a solution. There might be a way around all of this unpleasantness that would satisfy all parties. A disciplinary notice in Ms. Wesley's file stating the school board's objections to her behavior, a response from Ms. Wesley confessing the inappropriateness of and apologizing for her actions, along with a pledge not to engage in similar discussion of Jesus in the future.

  Tom Endler : I'm confident that we can move forward on that basis.

  Grace Wesley : No.

  Tom Endler : Grace...

  Grace Wesley : I can't.

  Tom Endler : [she gets up and leaves]  I'd like to request a brief recess to have a word with my client. Excuse me.

• Tom Endler : Grace?

  Grace Wesley : Are you...

  Tom Endler : Tom Endler, your union-appointed attorney.

  Grace Wesley : Oh, you don't look like a lawyer.

  Tom Endler : Thank you.

  Grace Wesley : I'm not sure I meant that as a compliment.

  Tom Endler : I'm determined to take it as one.

• Pete Kane : Your Honor, we'd like to challenge for cause.

  Judge Stennis : Why is that?

  Pete Kane : Oh, Your Honor, the man's an ordained minister. Need I say more?

  Judge Stennis : The juror is excused.

  Tom Endler : Objection, Your Honor.

  Judge Stennis : Basis, Mr. Endler?

  Tom Endler : Discriminatory, Your Honor. Preemptory challenges cannot be used to discriminate against a certain class of juror based on race, ethnic background, religion, or gender. And the fact that religious belief is tangential to this case doesn't change that.

  Judge Stennis : Upon further reflection, I find the respondent's assertion is correct. Sustained.

  [meaning Grace] 

  Judge Stennis : You're not her pastor, are you?

  Rev. Dave : Uh... no, Your Honor.

  Pete Kane : Your Honor, I must protest here.

  Judge Stennis : Mr. Kane, now, you had a set number of preemptory challenges, all of which you have used. Therefore, it's up to opposing counsel.

  Tom Endler : We accept him, Your Honor.

  Judge Stennis : Welcome to the jury, sir. Henceforth, juror number twelve. I hope you enjoy your service to the community.

  Rev. Dave : [disappointed]  Better chance of being struck by lightning.

• Tom Endler : Mrs. Rizzo, in the school's initial inquiry into this matter, you were Ms. Wesley's representative on behalf of the teacher's union, were you not?

  Mrs. Rizzo : Yes.

  Tom Endler : And did you ever consider that your disapproval of her faith might taint your ability to represent her properly?

  Pete Kane : Objection, speculative.

  Judge Stennis : Sustained.

  Rev. Dave : [one of his fellow jurors sneezes]  God bless you.

  Tom Endler : Careful, or you might end up on trial.

• Tom Endler : Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I have here a copy of the Constitution of the United States of America and its Bill of Rights, arguably the two most important documents in the history of our great nation. But despite Mr. Kane's impassioned rhetoric, you know what you won't find in there no matter how hard you look? The phrase "separation of church and state." That's right. It's not in there, never has been, because that phrase comes from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson. Now, ironically, Jefferson was writing to a Baptist congregation, ensuring them that they would always have the right to believe as they wished, free of government interference. But lately, that phrase has been taken out of context and twisted and contorted to mean the exact opposite. And one morning early this year, my client, Ms. Wesley, she woke up as usual, she drove to work at her job as a teacher at Martin Luther King High School, a place where she was Teacher of the Year. Her lesson plan for second-period AP History that morning, it didn't include any mention of God or Jesus. She didn't have a Bible sitting on her desk in plain view. She didn't start her class with a blessing. She didn't lead her students in prayer. No, all she did was answer a question, because that is what she gets paid to do. Now, Mr. Kane will insist loudly and often that faith isn't on trial here, but that is exactly what is on trial, the most basic human right of all, the right to believe. Mr. Kane's afraid. He's afraid that you, the jury, the touchstone of common sense, might not agree with his tortured interpretation of the Constitution, that you might understand that my client has rights, rights that trump his agenda, and that in realizing that, you will hold as I do that my client is guilty of no wrongdoing and innocent of any and all claims against her.

• Pete Kane : Mrs. Rizzo, did Ms. Wesley talk about faith issues on the school campus?

  Mrs. Rizzo : All the time. Everybody knows she's a Christian. I don't think she'd chew a stick of gum without praying first. It makes everyone feel awkward.

  Pete Kane : Thank you. No further questions, Your Honor.

  Judge Stennis : Your witness, Mr. Endler.

  Tom Endler : Mrs. Rizzo, you stated that Ms. Wesley talks about her faith all the time. I'm curious, can you give me a specific instance?

  Mrs. Rizzo : Well, not off the top of my head.

  Tom Endler : Well, has she, as far as you're aware, ever started her class with a prayer?

  Mrs. Rizzo : No.

  Tom Endler : Has she ever asked anyone in the teacher's lounge to pray with her?

  Mrs. Rizzo : No.

  Tom Endler : Has she ever asked you personally to pray with her?

  Pete Kane : Objection, Your Honor.

  Mrs. Rizzo : No.

  Pete Kane : Cumulative. The question has effectively been asked and answered.

  Tom Endler : Your Honor, Mrs. Rizzo's sworn testimony states that Ms. Wesley talked about her faith all the time, yet she's failed to cite a single instance. I'm merely trying to discover some basis for her opinion.

  Judge Stennis : Sustained. Mr. Endler, we're done with this line of questioning.

• Pete Kane : Mr. Thawley, how did you feel when you found out that your daughter had been exposed to faith-based teachings in class?

  Richard Thawley : Well, it felt like we had been violated. I mean, this was supposed to be a history class, not Sunday school. My wife and I are free thinkers. We're rationalists. We believe in a non-theistic worldview, and that's how we were trying to raise our daughter.

  Pete Kane : Uh-huh. And did you discuss this incident with your daughter?

  Richard Thawley : Well, I tried, but it's hard discussing anything with kids that age. She's 16. Some of you know what that's like.

  [laughter from the gallery] 

  Richard Thawley : It's hard enough trying to maintain credibility as a parent without a teacher jumping in and arguing against your position. Now, we trust the school not to overstep its bounds in terms of what is and what isn't appropriate. Is that too much to ask?

  Pete Kane : No. Thank you, Mr. Thawley. That's all, Your Honor.

  Judge Stennis : Your witness, Mr. Endler.

  Tom Endler : No questions, Your Honor.

• Grace Wesley : Injunctive relief?

  Tom Endler : They're asking that you be fired, plus revocation of your teaching certificate.

  Grace Wesley : What? How am I supposed to...

  Tom Endler : Plus attorney's fees. Essentially, you'll... you'll lose everything.

  Grace Wesley : Why are they doing this?

  Tom Endler : They want to make an example of you. To them, your beliefs are like a disease whose time has come and gone, sort of like smallpox or polio, or the plague.

  Grace Wesley : So what do we do?

  Tom Endler : We win.

• Pete Kane : You can't win.

  Tom Endler : Thanks. I'll take that under advisement.

  Pete Kane : Oh, come on, you know I'm right. I mean, why do it? Why go through this whole exercise, huh?

  [paying the man shining his shoes] 

  Pete Kane : Here, thanks. You know, I looked up your history. You're better than this. You were third in your class at Stanford Law. You clerked for a judge on the Ninth Circuit. Why are you slumming like this?

  Tom Endler : Maybe I believe that people that don't do anything wrong shouldn't suffer at the hands of the law.

  Pete Kane : You know what hate is, Tom? I'm not talking about the fairy tale stuff, I mean real hate. I hate what people like your client stand for and what they're doing to our society, and Stennis does, too, even if he doesn't admit it.

  Tom Endler : Well, the jury doesn't hate her.

  Pete Kane : Ah, but that's the secret, Tommy. They don't need to hate her. They just need to see a tiny flaw in her, a half-truth, a small inconsistency, just a little bit of doubt, and they'll find against her.

• Tom Endler : It's called voir dire. It means that we get a chance to eliminate any potential jurors that may have a bias against you.

  [taking his briefcase from security] 

  Tom Endler : Oh, thank you, sir. So, how are you feeling?

  Grace Wesley : I'm good.

  Tom Endler : All right, well, this is a bit of an arduous process. They bring all these jurors in. It's gonna take the whole day, but I think this is where we can win the case.

• Tom Endler : In your orientation at the beginning of the semester, your memo to the staff stressed diversity and tolerance, did it not?

  Principal Kinney : Yes.

  Tom Endler : Well, would it be fair to say that except for Christianity, all other forms of diversity are welcome?

  Pete Kane : Objection! Your Honor!

  Tom Endler : I will withdraw the question.

  Judge Stennis : Mr. Endler, you seem to have a penchant for injecting commentary where it doesn't belong. You would do well to avoid further provocation of this court.

  Tom Endler : I apologize, Your Honor. I'll look to curtail it in the future.

• Tom Endler : Ms. Kinney, can you tell me the full name of the high school over which you preside?

  Principal Kinney : Doctor Martin Luther King Junior Memorial High School.

  Tom Endler : I noticed that the name fails to mention Dr. King's title as Reverend Doctor.

  Principal Kinney : It's his work in the field of civil rights that we prefer to highlight.

  Tom Endler : But that's the whole point. You consider his faith and politics to be separate things, but I don't, and he certainly wouldn't have.

  Pete Kane : Objection, Your Honor. Counsel is testifying.

  Judge Stennis : Sustained. Jury's instructed to ignore Mr. Endler's preceding remarks.

• Tom Endler : Ms. Kinney, are you familiar with Dr. King's letter from the Birmingham Jail?

  Principal Kinney : Yes, it's a seminal piece of civil rights history.

  Tom Endler : In that letter, Dr. King makes numerous faith-based references, does he not?

  Principal Kinney : Offhand, I don't recall.

  Tom Endler : Allow me to refresh your memory. He cites the example of the three youths from the Book of Daniel who were tossed into the fiery furnace by King Nebuchadnezzar because they refused to worship him. Elsewhere, he urges action with Jesus, and here, I quote, "Extremist love." And in his speech "I've Been to the Mountaintop," he stated that he just wanted to do God's will. Is this coming back to you now?

  Principal Kinney : Yes.

  Tom Endler : In your opinion, would Ms. Wesley, had she chosen to do so, have been allowed to present the examples that I just mentioned in her class?

  Pete Kane : Objection. Speculative.

  Judge Stennis : I'm going to allow it. Overruled. Witness may answer.

  Principal Kinney : No. If it were up to me, she would not have been allowed.

  Tom Endler : Why not?

  Principal Kinney : Because those examples are too closely associated with faith.

  Tom Endler : In other words, they're... they're facts, but they're just facts that are too dangerous for discussion?

  Principal Kinney : The word I would use would be "controversial".

  Tom Endler : But aren't facts just facts? I mean, there's nothing controversial about two plus two equaling four, or E=MC squared, or the date man landed on the moon. So, why the controversy about these facts?

  Principal Kinney : I think the fact that we're all here today speaks for itself.

• Grace Wesley : So, is this what you always saw yourself doing, the lawyer thing?

  Tom Endler : No, um... I wanted to be Batman.

  [sharing a laugh] 

  Tom Endler : How 'bout you? Your... your parents have you all set to go to the convent?

  Grace Wesley : Actually, there were no bedtime prayers in my childhood. I was raised in a house without much faith.

  Tom Endler : When did you decide to become a Christian?

  Grace Wesley : I was walking home from class. It was dark, and I was struggling with a lot of things. And I... I turned the corner, and right there in front of me was this church. It had this old sign out front, but it just... it stopped me in my tracks. And the sign... the sign said, "Who do you say that I am?". And as I read it, I could hear the Lord speak to me. You know, I couldn't get that question out of my head for days, so that was the start of a journey that didn't end until I found the answer.

• Tom Endler : He doesn't make mistakes.

  Grace Wesley : But I thought you proved bias. I mean, Principal Kinney and Mrs. Rizzo?

  Tom Endler : No, those were just jabs. We need a knockout punch. Why did you feel compelled to bring Jesus up in history class?

  Grace Wesley : Why shouldn't I have?

  Tom Endler : Grace, I'm not here to debate with you what you think your rights were as...

  Grace Wesley : No, Tom, listen. This isn't about faith. This is about history. Okay, maybe I'm wrong here, I'm not the law expert, but I think they've missed the point.

  Tom Endler : I'm... I'm not sure I follow.

  Grace Wesley : Their whole attack, it's about me preaching in class, but I didn't do that.

  Tom Endler : Well, they're saying you did. You cited Scripture. You talked about Jesus' teachings just like they were any other verifiable fact.

  Grace Wesley : But what if they're just that? I mean, just because certain facts happen to be recorded in the Bible doesn't mean they stop being facts. We can separate the history-based elements of Jesus' life from the faith-based element. I mean, in my classroom, I didn't talk about Jesus as my Lord and Savior. You know, all I did was comment on quotations attributed to Jesus, the man, and I did it in AP History. There was nothing wrong with the context.

  Tom Endler : And any rule saying that you can talk about any historic figure that ever existed except Jesus is... discriminatory. I mean, they can't institute that.

  Grace Wesley : And every credible historian admits that Jesus existed. I mean, there's just too much evidence.

  Tom Endler : Grace, I love it. This is our defense. Jesus as a historic figure, just like everyone else. And you know what? Kane will never see it coming.

  Grace Wesley : [leaving and returning with a book titled "Man, Myth, Messiah"]  You got some reading to do.

• Tom Endler : I brought a giant bag of Chinese food and a briefcase full of files. I say we eat first.

  Grace Wesley : I say you're a genius.

  Tom Endler : Does Walter want to join us?

  Grace Wesley : Oh, no. He's hiding in his room.

  Tom Endler : How come?

  Grace Wesley : Uh... he's treating this like it's a date, which should give you some indication of what my social life is like.

  Tom Endler : Don't worry, I won't tell. Falls under attorney/client privilege.

• Tom Endler : Can you state your name and occupation for the court?

  Lee Strobel : My name is Lee Strobel. I'm a professor of Christian Thought at Houston Baptist University and the author of more than 20 books about Christianity, including "The Case for Christ."

  Tom Endler : Can you help me prove the existence of Jesus?

  Lee Strobel : Absolutely, beyond any reasonable doubt.

  Tom Endler : How so?

  Lee Strobel : Actually, this court already affirmed it when we were called into session and the date was given. Our calendar has been split between B.C. and A.D. based on the birth of Jesus, which is quite a feat if he never existed. Beyond that, historian Gary Habermas lists 39 ancient sources for Jesus, from which he enumerates more than 100 reported facts about his life, teachings, crucifixion, and resurrection. In fact, the historical evidence for Jesus' execution is so strong that one of the most famous New Testament scholars in the world, Gerd Ludemann of Germany, said, "Jesus' death as a consequence of crucifixion is indisputable." Now, there are very few facts in ancient history that a critical historian like Gerd Ludemann will say is indisputable. One of them is the execution of Jesus Christ.

  Tom Endler : Forgive me, but you're a believer, are you not? A Bible-believing Christian?

  Lee Strobel : Guilty as charged.

  Tom Endler : So, wouldn't this tend to inflate your estimate of the probability that Jesus existed?

  Lee Strobel : No, because we don't need to inflate it. We can reconstruct the basic facts about Jesus just from non-Christian sources outside the Bible. And Gerd Ludemann is an athiest. In other words, we can prove the existence of Jesus solely by using sources that have absolutely no sympathy toward Christianity. As the agnostic historian, Bart Ehrman, says, "Jesus did exist, whether we like it or not." I put it this way: denying the existence of Jesus doesn't make him go away. It merely proves that no amount of evidence will convince you.

  Tom Endler : Thank you. No further questions, Your Honor.

• Tom Endler : Would you state your name and experience for the record?

  Jim Warner Wallace : My name is James Warner Wallace. I'm a retired homicide detective from Los Angeles County.

  Tom Endler : And are you the author of the book "Cold Case Christianity"?

  Jim Warner Wallace : Yes, I am.

  Tom Endler : Can you share the subtitle of the book with the court, please?

  Jim Warner Wallace : "A Homicide Detective Investigates the Claims of the Gospels."

  Tom Endler : Would I be correct in saying that your... your duties as a homicide detective include investigating cold-case homicides?

  Jim Warner Wallace : Yes, that is and was my expertise.

  Tom Endler : Don't most of those cases get solved with DNA evidence?

  Pete Kane : Objection. Leading. And counsel is testifying again, Your Honor.

• Pete Kane : Ms. Thawley, do you like Ms. Wesley?

  Brooke Thawley : Yes.

  Pete Kane : Would you say she's your favorite teacher?

  Brooke Thawley : Yes, absolutely.

  Pete Kane : Do you think Ms. Wesley likes you?

  Tom Endler : Objection. Speculative.

  Pete Kane : Your Honor, speaks to the state of mind of the witness, if not Ms. Wesley herself.

• Tom Endler : Grace, I want you to do something for me, something for everyone in this courtroom. I want you to apologize. I want you to say you're sorry and that you made a mistake.

  Pete Kane : Your Honor, what's going on here?

  Tom Endler : Do it, Grace.

  Grace Wesley : I can't do that.

  Tom Endler : Why? Why can't you do that, Grace?

  Grace Wesley : Because I don't believe I did anything wrong.

  Tom Endler : Well, as your attorney, I'm advising you to do it anyway. To at least pretend that you're sorry and throw yourself on the mercy of the court.

  Brooke Thawley : [watching from the gallery]  What?

  Grace Wesley : That would be a lie.

  Tom Endler : So what? Everyone lies.

  Grace Wesley : Not everyone.

  Tom Endler : Are... are you looking to become a martyr?

  Pete Kane : [quietly to his second chair]  What in the world is he doing?

  Simon Boyle : I have no idea.

• Judge Stennis : Mr. Endler, are you looking to change your client's plea?

  Tom Endler : No, Your Honor. I say she's innocent of all wrongdoing. But I'm asking the jury to find against her anyway. I mean, let's... let's face it. She has the audacity to believe not only that there is a God, but that she has a personal relationship with Him, which colors everything that she says and does. I think it's time that we stop pretending that we can trust a person like this to serve in a public capacity. In the name of tolerance and diversity, I say we destroy her.

  Judge Stennis : That's enough, Mr. Endler.

  Tom Endler : Then we can all go to our graves content, knowing that we stomped out the last spark of faith that was ever exhibited in the public square.

  Judge Stennis : [banging his gavel]  That's enough, Mr. Endler.

  Tom Endler : I say we make an example of her.

  Judge Stennis : Mr. Endler, that's enough.

  Tom Endler : Let's set a new precedent, that employment by our federal government mandates that you must first denounce any belief system you have.

  Judge Stennis : Mr. Endler, that is enough! You are out of order.

  Tom Endler : And if someone slips through the cracks and-and... and hides behind their beliefs, then we arrest them and fine them. And if they don't pay, then we seize their property. And if they resist... well, let's not kid ourselves. Enforcement is always at the end of a gun.

• Tom Endler : I have to prepare you, Grace. We're gonna lose this case.

  Grace Wesley : I know. You were right. I'm gonna lose everything.

• Tom Endler : What is it that you want, Grace? Tell me. Tell us.

  Grace Wesley : I want... I want to be able to tell the truth.

  Tom Endler : The truth? Whose truth? And what truth are you referring to? Grace, i-is there some truth that you know that no one else knows?

  [she doesn't know how to respond] 

  Tom Endler : Oh, that's right. The other night, didn't you tell me that Jesus spoke to you personally?

  Grace Wesley : Why are you doing this?

  Tom Endler : I'm the one asking the questions, Ms. Wesley. Did you or did you not tell me that Jesus spoke to you personally?

  Grace Wesley : Yes.

  Tom Endler : And what did he say? I'll make it easier for you. Didn't you say that he asked you a question?

  Grace Wesley : That was personal. You weren't supposed to...

  Tom Endler : I don't care.

• Grace Wesley : [seing the jury after Brooke testifies]  Why do they look so angry?

  Tom Endler : Because they think we lied to them.

  Grace Wesley : But we didn't.

  Tom Endler : It doesn't matter.

• Tom Endler : Brooke, in class, who first brought up the name Jesus, you or Ms. Wesley?

  Brooke Thawley : I did.

  Tom Endler : As part of a question?

  Brooke Thawley : Yes.

  Tom Endler : And at that time, did you feel like you were asking a faith-based question?

  Brooke Thawley : No, not really. It just seemed like Martin Luther King and Jesus were saying similar things, so I brought it up.

  Tom Endler : And did you consider Ms. Wesley's response to be a reasonable answer to your question?

  Brooke Thawley : Yes.

  Tom Endler : So if I'm hearing you correctly, you asked a question in history class about a historical figure, and your history teacher answered it in a sensible manner?

  Brooke Thawley : Yes.

  Tom Endler : Thank you.

  [to Kane] 

  Tom Endler : Your witness.

• Tom Endler : The other night, you told me that Jesus asked you something. What did he ask you, Grace? Tell all of us. I think we deserve to know.

  Grace Wesley : Why are you doing this to me?

  Tom Endler : Answer the question.

  Grace Wesley : They won't believe me.

  Tom Endler : Doesn't matter. All that matters is that you believe it. Tell us, Grace, under penalty of perjury, what was the question that God presented to you personally that night on campus? Answer the question.

  [shouting] 

  Tom Endler : Answer the question!

  Grace Wesley : [tearfully]  He asked, "Who do you say that I am?".

  Tom Endler : And what did you answer?

  Grace Wesley : "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

• Pete Kane : Do you think there's any possibility that in answering your question, she may have tried to share some of the ideas of her faith, a faith that she holds most dear?

  Brooke Thawley : No, uh, no, not at that moment.

  Pete Kane : Not at that moment. You mean to say that there were other moments in which she talked to you about her faith?

  [the courtroom notices her react] 

  Pete Kane : Hmm? Ms. Thawley, please?

  Judge Stennis : You must answer the question, Ms. Thawley.

  Brooke Thawley : Yes, but it was outside of school and it was only one time.

  Tom Endler : Move to strike. Your Honor, this is irrelevant. No actions off the school campus are at issue here.

  Judge Stennis : Denied. Mr. Kane seems to have found a loose thread. I'm inclined to let him pull it. See what unravels.

  Pete Kane : Thank you, Your Honor.

  Tom Endler : [quietly to Grace]  Why didn't you tell me about this?

  Grace Wesley : You didn't ask, and I didn't think it mattered.

• Tom Endler : How many of your cold cases were solved through the use of DNA evidence?

  Jim Warner Wallace : None. Not one. That's, uh, often popular on TV, but our department's never had the good fortune of solving a cold case with DNA.

  Tom Endler : Well, how do most of these cases get solved?

  Jim Warner Wallace : Often by examining eyewitness claims, witness claims that were made many years earlier, even though often our witnesses are now deceased.

  Tom Endler : Forgive my ignorance, Mr. Wallace, but how is that possible?

  Jim Warner Wallace : Well, we have a number of techniques we can use to test the reliability of an eyewitness, including something called forensic statement analysis. That's a discipline where we scrutinize the statements of eyewitnesses and look at what they choose to minimize, what they choose to emphasize, what they omit altogether, how they expand time or contract time. And when we examine these kinds of eyewitness accounts, we can usually tell who's lying and who's telling the truth, and even who the guilty party is.

  Tom Endler : And did you apply this skill set anytime outside of your official capacity?

  Jim Warner Wallace : Yes, I applied my expertise to the death of Jesus at the hands of the Romans, and I actually looked at the gospels as I would any other set of forensic statements. Within a matter of months, I determined that the four gospels, written from different perspectives, contained the eyewitness accounts about the life, ministry, death, and resurrection of Jesus.

  Tom Endler : And did you consider that the four accounts might be part of a conspiracy, designed to promote belief in a fledgling faith?

  Jim Warner Wallace : Yeah, you have to consider conspiracies when assessing eyewitness accounts, but successful conspiracies typically involve the fewest number of people. It's a lot easier for two people to lie and keep a secret than it is for 20. And that's really the problem with the conspiracy theories related to the apostles in the 1st century. There are just far too many of them trying to hold this conspiracy for far too long a period of time. And far worse, they're experiencing pressure like no other, unimaginable pressure. Every one of these folks was tortured and died for what they claimed to see, and none of them ever recanted their story. So the idea that, um, this is a conspiracy in the 1st century is just really unreasonable. Instead, what I see in the gospels is something I call unintended eyewitness support statements.

• Tom Endler : Your Honor, I have one final witness to call. Grace Wesley.

  Judge Stennis : Ms. Wesley, please approach the witness stand.

  Grace Wesley : Do I have to?

  Judge Stennis : I'm afraid so.

  Tom Endler : Your Honor, given the witness's reluctance to testify, can I have the court's permission to treat her as a hostile witness?

  Judge Stennis : You may. Proceed at your own peril.

• Tom Endler : What's an unintended eyewitness support statement?

  Jim Warner Wallace : [to the judge]  If I can borrow your Bible?

  [taking and opening it] 

  Jim Warner Wallace : Let me go to the Gospel of, uh, Matthew for an example of this. I'll start with a passage in which Jesus is in front of Caiaphas at a hearing. It says here, "Then they spit in his face and struck him with their fists. Others slapped him and said, 'Prophesy to us, Christ. Who hit you?'." Now, that seems like a very simple request, given that the people who hit him are standing right in front of him. What... this makes no sense. What... why would it be prophecy to be able to tell you who hit you? But it's not until you read Luke that you get an answer to this. He says, "The men who were guarding Jesus began mocking and beating him. They blindfolded him and demanded, 'Prophesy, who hit you?'." So, now we know why this was a challenge, 'cause Luke tells us the thing that Matthew left out, that he was actually blindfolded at the time this took place. This is very common, this kind of unintentional eyewitness support that fills in a detail that the first witness left out. After years of scrutinizing these gospels using the template that I use to determine if an eyewitness is reliable, I concluded that the four gospels in this book contained the reliable accounts of the actual words of Jesus.

  Tom Endler : And that's to include the statements quoted by Ms. Wesley in her class?

  Jim Warner Wallace : Absolutely.