Betting on Zero (2016) User Reviews

The American Dream (or was it Nightmare?)

[kosmasp · 8/10 · 9 February 2018]

I had heard of Herballife before, but I never really looked into it. I have to admit that only by name and the vague promise of healthy living/eating, I'd say I would be interested in that product. But having watched the movie and having checked online for other sources, I wouldn't do it in hindsight. The Pyramid thing of selling, is something I despised from the moment someone tried to sell it to me.

Back then I got introduced into the life insurance business. Where when you got people signing a contract, you got a percentage. But you could also get other people involved, lean back and let them do the hard work. Obviously, the most money would land with the people at the top ... all those below would get a smaller amount ... all the way to the crumbs at the bottom. The movie portrays different sides and gives voice or offers perspective from Herballife too. There are more than a couple of warning signs. But if someone promises you riches and a lot of money ... well some people do fall for that. Intriguing and compelling editing does the rest

A good watch for those interested in investment science. For others, less so.

[laszlo-05700 · 7/10 · 4 October 2017]

As of October, 2017 - a few months after the premier of this documentary - Herbalife stock price peacefully sits at ~67 USD. I just wanted to start the review with this statement to let everyone know the company is still well and thriving. None should look at this production as the documentary that exposes the dirty cheats that may run a corporation bankrupt or earn them the most thorough federal investigations of all time. My law teacher once told me: everyday people think that courts provide justice for the mass, but it isn't true. What they provide is law. This applies to Herbalife a lot: the way an MLM company operates is clearly unfair and unjust, but none was able to prove so far that it is completely against the law. There may be illegal operations behind the curtain we don't know of yet or 'Betting on Zero' was unable to bring to light, but as far as they are considered clean by the regulators, they go on.

However I must praise the documentary for the financial approach. It gives very good explanation on basic terms like shorting, provides a good view of the hedge fund world and reveals why the efficient market theory is far-far away from reality. So in case you want to be the next George Soros, this is a must-watch for you. If you are looking for a documentary where the little men fight to get revenge on big money, then just skip this - Mexican immigrants praying with attorneys will hardly provide you any useful information.

An Empire of Deception

[sayakchowdhury · 7/10 · 23 June 2021]

"Betting on Zero" is a documentary film about hedge fund manager Bill Ackman's legendary feud with a multi-level marketing corporation known worldwide as "Herbalife".

Herbalife is a public company whose stocks are traded on the NYSE (New York Stock Exchange), they sell dietary supplements and encourage customers to recruit other people into the fold as distributors of their products. The company seems to be big proponents of providing financial freedom to their customers yet most of their customers who are responsible for selling their products and recruiting others people into the Herbalife cause find themselves filing for bankruptcy. This dichotomy reveals a more nefarious modus operandi that is based on preying on the vulnerable, as so aptly put in words by many: "Herbalife in Robin Hood in reverse".

Bill Ackman first became aware of the dubious stats of the company and became interested soon as he realized that this was in all essence a billion pyramid scheme operating in broad daylight. To him the company was a lie so audacious that people had no way but to believe that it was true. So he took it upon himself to drag the company through the mud, to expose it's true colors and to make a neat profit while at it.

Meanwhile there were is another faction on the ground level, away from the machinations of Wall Street, mostly made up of the Latino community, along with a few others who have experienced the harmful effects that Herbalife firsthand. They have lost a lot of money and are dealing with the very real repercussions that come thereafter.

For the most case Bill Ackman and the Latino community, who are hit the hardest by the ill effects of Herbalife, remain in their own separate worlds. They are largely uninformed of each other and have to deal with the problem in their own way. These are two starkly different worlds and have their very differing views of how to deal with the problem. While the Latino community engages in protesting and providing community support while Bill Ackman engages in shorting Herbalife stock. The documentary highlights the key moments in their struggle against Herbalife. The documentary is very US-entric and leaves much of the global operations of Herbalife mostly untouched, save for a brief mention. Although Bill Ackman gets painted in a sympathetic light, the disenfranchised masses are those who retain all sympathies.

The documentary does well to show the corrosive effects that these fraudulent corporations can have on a community the helplessness that comes therein. But even in the face of the dehumanizing effects of these large systems, the community remains resilient. Beaten down again and again till they had someone like Ackman on their side did they have any hope of winning.

Entertaining, educational, with a dose of humanity.

[JohnDeSando · 10 April 2017]

William Ackman, quietly charismatic investor and producer of Inside Job, has made a short bet on Herbalife, which he claims is a pyramid scheme benefiting the rich at the top and stealing from the poor at the bottom. Betting on Zero is the fascinating documentary about the battle between equally charismatic Herbalife CEO, William Johnson, and Ackman.

The ambiguity comes on two levels: Is Johnson a con man or a brilliant business man? Is Ackman in this game to bring down the price of Herbalife's stock and cause the company to close, or is he looking to make a huge profit (he promises to spread his profit to the poor, mainly Latinos, who bought into the pyramid)? This doc is not as pro-Ackman as you might expect. By tracking him coming to a meeting like a rock star out of a black SUV and increasing skepticism about his motives, it seems to support a balanced view. Yes, Johnson has been part of a management that has made the company worth over $50 billion and many at that high level, millionaires, yet the evidence is that the need for more and more managers merely means more people in the lower levels will never make a buck.

As with The Big Short and Margin Call, both about the bad mortgage game, the tension is ripe even though we know the outcome of a potentially nerdy story. However, these stories are all fraught with human drama and educational enlightenment for those of us not versed in financial language and events.

These real-life stars carry the moral ambiguity of Shakespearean tragic characters, which, in this case, appear to honor and protect the consumers who buy their products. You will leave the theater with a better understanding of shorting and more than that, a wariness about door-to- door products and slick purveyors.

Educational, multifacted-- loved it

[jennniindia · 7/10 · 10 February 2022]

I started to watch the document mainly because I was curious about Mr. Ackman's investment style.

But, at the end, I got to learn and think about a lot more things than it.

The document stitches well different facts, people, struggles, and battles surrounding Herbal Life, a controversial but quite successful U. S. company.

Yes, it's about Ackman's challenging investment journey of shorting on the company's shares for multiple reasons (including humanitarian ones).

But it's about innocent people lured into businesses where they are mostly destined to lose and fail. This part was sad as they were real people rather than abstract numbers on excel sheets or legal documents.

It's also about flaws and loopholes in our economic, political, and legal systems (not only in the U. S. but across the world): Nearly imposed damages not being dealt because they are not illegal; controversial entities/people flourishing through connections and lobbying.

I don't want to go far by making too big an analogy. But I now keep thinking about this pyramid scheme. Maybe many more companies and societies (than the focal company) may work on similar mechanisms to a less controversial and subtler extent, or maybe not!

A Perfect Expose

[gavin6942 · 9/10 · 15 June 2017]

Writer/director Ted Braun follows controversial hedge fund titan Bill Ackman as he puts a billion dollars on the line in his crusade to expose Herbalife as the largest pyramid scheme in history.

This is just about as perfect as a documentary can get. The very moment I was introduced to Herbalife in the early 2000s, I knew it was a pyramid scheme. But obviously others do not see that, as the business continued to be profitable and thriving.

This documentary not only explores the pyramid nature of the business, but explains how people fall for it. In some cases, it is because they are unsophisticated immigrants. Other times, they had the business misrepresented to them. But it is not just stupid or ignorant people who fall for it.

Without giving anything away, this story will have you cheering on Ackman. He may be one of the very few Wall Street investors who is actually hoping the little guy will win.

One minor complaint...

[dianna1976 · 7/10 · 7 June 2017]

Great story, however there is quite a long stretch of the film that does not translate any of the Spanish speakers! I watched this on Netflix, so, I don't know if it was an oversight on their part or not. Otherwise, I'm inspired that people are speaking up about being ripped off. It's embarrassing but it helps so many people!

Interesting throughout

[agatk · 8/10 · 11 August 2018]

A long but engaging and extremely even-handed documentary, and it's engaging in large part because it doesn't take obvious sides. You really don't know which way things will go, nor is anyone portrayed as a purely good guy or bad guy, and different parties are given equal opportunities to speak. I liked it.

An Amazing Documentary With Great Characters and Story

[kenzokern · 8/10 · 23 August 2023]

I just watched "Betting on Zero," and gotta say, it's quite the ride. This documentary drives home its points on this evil corporation. They mix interviews, undercover work, and personal experiences to expose what horrible things have taken place. They talk with ex-Herbalife sellers who got the short end of the stick, and there's Bill Ackman, a hedge fund manager leading a full-on crusade against the company. They try to play it fair, showing both sides of the story, which gives a nice balance.

They do seem to drag a bit on the story and they could've made the film shorter but I didn't really mind it that much. It shouldn't affect weather or not you see the film (in my opinion).

Ackman is focused on a lot in this movie and I can see why some people don't like that they focus on him so much. On the other hand, I think it shows that there are people on many ranges of income that are working to fight against Herbalife. And that it is not just a rich v.s the poor scenario.

So even though there are its cons, "Betting on Zero" seriously nails it when it comes to uncovering the shady side of corporate greed. I love how they went over the story without making you want to stop watching it out of boredom. It tugs at your heart with personal stories, and makes you realize how unfair the world can be. If you are interested I highly recommend it, especially if you are getting into the world of business.

Far too long

[name99-92-545389 · 4/10 · 20 November 2020]

It's an interesting story, but there's 15 minutes of useful content in the story; the remaining ninety minutes is pure filler. As you're watching, whenever you feel "god we get it, you've already said this a dozen times" jump forward 20 min -- you won't miss anything.

I have nothing to say beyond that. Hopefully IMDB won't force me to pad this reviews with vast amounts of filler!

Great documentary thats tries to cover almost all perspectives

[pieterbmolendijk · 11 February 2019]

Overall this is movie is really interesting. William Ackman does his best trying to expose the business model used by Herbalife, which is cleary unethical and the potential to harm a lot of uneducated and unsophisticated investors. Meanwhile, another CEO of an investment firm tries to fight him by buying buying shares from Herbalife, which creates this competitive rivalry between investors. It does a great job highlighting all sides and the consequences the business model has (which is not officially defined as a pyramid scheme by the FTC, but is pretty damn close).

For me, someone that studies banking and finance this movie could be a lot more attractive than for someone that is uninterested in finance or markets in general, my advice is therefore watch it if you are interested in the field of finance or like documentaries regarding economicies, else this is propably not worth it.

Should Have Focused on Herbalife's Victims, Not Ackman

[tylerwoodrownichols · 5/10 · 30 June 2018]

I've been interested in multi-level marketing (MLM), AKA legal pyramid schemes, for a while now, so when I heard about this film I knew I needed to watch it. There's a lot to like about it, but there's also a lot to hate. I would have loved for it to focus more on Herbalife itself and its victims. There's a decent amount of information about Herbalife (which is nothing but despicable) and a kind of sub-plot about a group of Latino immigrants who are trying to sue the company for taking advantage of their community. There would probably be more than enough going on there to make for a decent documentary, but instead it focuses too much on the stereotypical "wolf of Wall Street" opportunist (oh wait, my mistake,"activist investor") Bill Ackman and his bid to get rich(er) off of ruining Herbalife's stock. It's clear to me that he's just a sociopath himself who doesn't really care about Herbalife's victims at all, but just sees a situation to exploit for his own financial gain. On one level, I get it. It makes for a very juicy story and everybody wants a "hero" to root for. However, I would rather that hero to have been the actual underdog here, Herbalife's victims. I do think that there is a valuable lesson in the childish quibble between Ackman and his nemesis, fellow Wall Street scum Carl Icahn, about why using the stock market as an indicator of how the economy is doing is basically meaningless for the average person: in reality it's little more than a playground for the ultra-rich, men who are so out of touch with reality or basic human empathy that they put their own egos (oh, and money, did I mention money?) above everything else. It's well-made and will surely keep you entertained, but ultimately it feels hollow and left me hoping for a better documentary about MLM itself, not ego-measuring contests between reprehensible "activist investors".

Don't waste time

[iamultraannoying · 2/10 · 18 April 2022]

You could read the whole story in 10 min. And be done with it. But this movie stretched it into almost 2 hours long and boring - whatever it is.

Tl;dr The guy shorts the stock (makes a bet). Another one doesn't like this guy so he buys the stock (makes a counter bet - longs the stock). Others join the second one. The second one wins. In the end the first one was right, but didn't make money out of it, because he has a punchable face and nobody likes him and stock isn't about being right or wrong but about gambling and how good of a gamler are you. The first one isn't a good gambler.

Movie twists facts and you probably don't know how to run a business

[cocoachica · 1/10 · 7 October 2019]

You're being scammed if you believe the cherry picking facts in this movie: "Herbalife doesn't let you use its name on your fitness clubs". Yes and?...That's not shady practice - they don't monitor your club like a franchise would (think Mcdonalds). Therefore, they can't control how you represent them or the quality of how you run it. I wouldn't want you using explicitly my name either if I couldn't keep an eye on you.

Look, you'll meet salespeople in every business. Some people are pushy and don't tell you the truth. That could very well be it. Not the company's responsibility. BEFORE you sign up, there's a very clear document outlining that you may not make money (and other things clearly outlined). If you can't read or think for yourself, you shouldn't go into any business.

How much does it cost to be a McDonald's Franchisee? Oh right, about $1million. And you think Herbalife is going to give you money *right away* the moment you sign up with a minimal investment JUST for selling a few products? The company would go out of business.

Of course they're going to require you to gather a large sales team of distributors - they need to sell a lot of product before giving you royalties. Think of it this way - you have a new watch business. You need people to sell watches for you in order to scale - you don't give them half your profits right away, do you? ANY corporation works this way.

This movie twists facts to make it look like things are shady when there are simple explanations for them. And quite frankly, not everyone is an entrepreneur - you don't all have the ability to stick to something or to change your path. Look up Akbar Sheikh. Dude was living in a closet before he made his money on Clickfunnels. No wait, don't look that up. You might get scammed.

Pretends to be a documentary, but fails to deliver

[stephenjgood · 1/10 · 22 April 2017]

I've been following the Ackman/Herbalife story with amusement for years. This was an entertaining movie to watch, if this was a work of fiction I would give it 7/10. But as a documentary, I hold it to a much higher standard...

So, this movie would have you believe that Herbalife is the biggest pyramid scheme in the history of the world. A bold claim indeed! Prove it to me, this movie did not. First, Herbalife sells Billions of dollars in product a year, year after year. That is Billions with a capital (B), real product to real people, apparently not worth mentioning by the film maker. Next, the FTC did an extensive audit of Herbalife, and did not shut them down. You would have me believe that the biggest pyramid scheme in the history of the world can pass an FTC audit? Seriously? Sorry, I find the premise ludicrous. Herbalife was given a fine, and worked with he FTC to clean up it's bad practices. I highly recommend reading the FAQ on FTC.gov on this case before watching this movie.

This movie strings together a bunch of hard luck stories with the obvious intent to play on the viewer emotions. The film maker would like you to believe that Herbalife is this evil corporation, and is totally at fault. In my opinion, anyone going into any business is responsible for doing their due diligence. The movie does not explore this simple truth in any meaningful way. The film fails to explore the distinction of where the fault lies, which is to some degree with Herbalife, some degree with the dealers doing the recruiting, and some degree with the new recruits. In my opinion the movie has the blame between the three backwards.

The real underlying problem, is age old, runs across every business, in every country, over all time. People will rip other people off for money. Commission sales brings out the worst in people, making exaggerated claims to play on emotions in order to make that sale. The only unique thing here is that the biggest sale get a new recruit, this is the normal business model for all multi-level marketing organizations, not unique to Herbalife at all.

The only possible redeeming quality of this movie is that you can watch it with your children and teach them not to be a dumb ass. There are two sides to every story, teach your children to look for both, and avoid being manipulated by a one sided story someone else wants to sell you.

See that guy that bought 5 nutrition clubs, well the smart thing would have been to buy one and see how it goes, he has nobody to blame but himself. Here is a guy with a construction business, and allows himself to be sold on hype, did he learn nothing in building his business? Why isn't his construction business successful? Maybe he just doesn't the talent to run a business in the first place. This person has a basement and garage full of product they can't sell, maybe they should have sold what they had first before ordering more. Stupid is as stupid does Forrest.

Full disclosure: I have never tried a Herbalife product, and probably never will, I'm not a fan of the direct sell business model. I am very much into nutrition and supplementation. After the FTC ruling, I purchased Herbalife stock, I believe the company is good from an investment stand point.