Favor (2013) User Reviews

A Friend helps you move. A good Friend helps you move a body

[moviejunkie0705 · 7/10 · 24 August 2014]

Another one that caught me completely by surprise. Alicia Veliz and I sat down to watch this, after deciding to pick a couple of random DVDs. While it turned out I saw the other one before, Favor was new to us both and I'm happy to say, this was a Favor I didn't mind owing.

Do you know the saying "A friend helps you move. A good friend helps you move a body" ? This is the entire premise of this movie and while it is a very small budget movie (you can tell the locations are no more than two or three places), the actors involved and the Director did a fantastic job of making this simple premise a taught and enjoyable thriller from beginning to end.

With a slow build, but never boring Favor is all about the characters shown. Kip is one of those people some of us know, who always seem to have everything they want. A great job. A nice home. A loving marriage and everything in between. Like some people though, he takes these things for granted as if he's owed everything he has. Then we meet Marvin. Kip's old friend from way back. Marvin is the complete opposite. He's broke. He's unemployed. He's lonely and has nothing worth living for. After Kip asks for Marvin help to move his dead girlfriend's body, things get really complicated as Marvin unravels and begins to envy Kip's life. We know what's coming, but that doesn't make the ride any less fun.

Favor isn't fast paced or action packed but the actors make the story riveting and enjoyable from beginning to end and I highly recommend watching it, if you're looking for a good suspense flick.

Could have been a blockbuster?

[spioncap · 6/10 · 15 May 2014]

I honestly don't know what to make of this film.

I think if it had two major stars as the main characters and a great director it could have been an Oscar winner. It really wanted to be good but in the end failed.

The problem is, I'm not entirely sure where it failed.

I think it was the acting. There again, it may have been the direction. I don't know, so it was probably both.

Great idea and I found that I really,really,really wanted to enjoy it but in the end, just felt deflated.

Having said that if they'd put say George Clooney and Brad Pitt in as the leads and Tarantino or Fincher directing, I'm sure I'd have loved it.

Just shows how shallow I am, but I bet 100 to 1, most who watch will secretly agree. Worth the watch though!

A Favor is not a Favor if there are strings attached, anything else it a trade, or exchange.

[face-819-933726 · 5/10 · 24 April 2014]

This feels so much like a Nineties suspense/thriller and it really plays like one. There are almost no cellphones used, and the way in which the scenes were shot really felt like the simpler lighting, and low definition. That is the setting for the most part, and once past this you can get to the meat of the movie, which is in no way perfect, but has some good strong acting, and you can see the effort on the screen. The story flows with a few stutters, and backtracks on itself a lot, however you do get good tensions between the characters, and even though the shots were way too claustrophobicly close up when they did not all have to be, even the boardroom stuff is passable for the acting if nothing else. Speaking of nothing else though there is nothing more that saves this movie, the story is crooked, and connivingly obvious, and it still thinks that it is fooling you when it does the inevitable. So I think that I Enjoyed the acting in this movie by both of the leads Good, or Evil, you have to decide, and the supporting cast were really the big strength of the movie more than just a cameo by Jeffrey Combs is still just filler if you look at it on it's own, but worth my time. I only recommend this to fans of Nineties suspense, or Fifties to Eighties B-movies as that is all you will really be getting here.

Some great strengths

[Phil_Chester · 3 August 2018]

There's some genuinely great acting in this, plus some really strong writing and directing, but ultimately it doesn't quite achieve escape velocity and soar. The ending is just too convenient, and with another pass this script could have been so much more effective. However, it's still definitely worth a watch, despite these failings.

Easy watch thriller

[Vindelander · 7/10 · 8 December 2020]

Interesting plot and moves along at a good old pace. Good cast and builds to a twisted ending. Definitely worth a 7 in my book

One out of hundreds!

[deloscorporation · 7/10 · 11 December 2022]

I'm watching films every day, always looking for new, surprising and amazing stories. Most of them are just a waste of time, no doubt. But from time to time I discover a true pearl among them. Like this one! I didn't expect much, but the rating of 6,3 made me curious. And what a surprise! A cheap little indie movie with almost no budget and no special effects that was so gripping and thrilling! It avoided a few typical turns of the story that you could have expected. Instead the characters showed some development that I didn't see coming. Maybe a little bit too much development in the case of Marvin (Patrick Day) to be absolute believable. But this little flaw is nothing compared to most other films.

Good acting, original story and just enough humour. Watch it!

The Cult of Narcissism

[lavatch · 3/10 · 20 January 2023]

Kip and Marvin were friends when they were kids. As adults, they reconnect when Kip asks his old buddy Marvin for a favor. Kip believes that he has accidentally killed his mistress in a motel, and he requests that Marvin help him dispose of the body. Marvin agrees and discovers that Abby is still alive. He kills her for good measure, then proceeds to extort and blackmail Kip for the favor.

The two buddies were a study in contrasts. Kip is a successful advertising executive, and Marvin is unemployed and broke. Kip has a successful marriage and even learns that he will be a father. Marvin is a loner and loser with no friends, family, or lovers.

If there is a common trait shared by Kip and Marvin, it is narcissism. Both men have oversized egos and exploit those around them for their own purposes. The problem with this dark comedy was that it was far too unpleasant. The death of the pregnant Claire seemed especially unnecessary for the filmmakers to make their point.

While the performances were good, the film lacked any semblance of redemption. The absence of human values on the part of the characters was appalling, and the result was a depressing cinematic experience.

Excellent but has its flaws.

[jeepmjw-955-821483 · 8/10 · 29 April 2014]

I went into this movie knowing nothing at all about it, so perhaps that's one of the reasons I scored it so highly. Sometimes it's great to just watch a movie for the sake of watching it rather then go in expecting something only to be disappointed.

The story is not new, but the way it's delivered is quite good and not what I expected at all.

I have never heard of any of the actors in this piece and given their sometimes wooden acting and sheer (seemingly) lack of talent helps deliver this movie in a fashion I'm certainly not familiar with. I am hoping that the actors were directed in such a fashion as to seem wooden and inexperienced to add to the impact they have on the audience.

There are some rather ridiculous moments of 'special effects' but I'm not going to detract too much from the movie for what seem like 'after thoughts'. There are a couple of bad editing points, I can't fathom why they needed two Toyota Camry's, but clearly there is more then one and in a couple of scenes there is some annoying lens reflection, but I guess most wont notice anyway. Why do I bring these items up???, well I am of the opinion that this movie was a fluke, however I'm not totally convinced, but it seems to me that if you take an old script use unknown actors, use poor visual effects combined with poor camera work and still have a winning combination it's either a fluke or bloody good direction. I'm not knowledgeable enough on the director nor the actors to offer an 'informed opinion', but let's hope the next movie from Paul Osborne shows me that it was great work from him that pleased me so much about this movie.

Overall I was glued to this movie for the simple fact that the actors had me wondering if they could deliver the goods, they delivered in spades as did the director, as mentioned the script is by no means new, but it has some interesting twists and turns that carry the movie and keep you guessing, to turn a old script into something that is interesting and is not 'too' predictable is an achievement in itself.

I thoroughly enjoyed this.

8/10.

I wasn't expecting this

[freonpsandoz · 1/10 · 20 December 2021]

People should really be warned when they're about to watch a snuff film. I'm not sure who enjoys this film, and I definitely don't want to ever meet any of them.

Surprisingly good considering the pedigree

[planktonrules · 8/10 · 22 April 2014]

"Favor" is a rather low-budget film by filmmakers with rather limited experience. The writer/director, Paul Osborne, for instance has only a few credits to his name and the two stars have a decent number of credits—but not as leading men. Yet, interestingly, despite its cheapness, the film doesn't look cheap and is an unusual and exciting little thriller. Also, the actors didn't look like actors and this makes the film seem much more realistic than a film with big-name Hollywood stars. I like films like this, as it feels like you are discovering something yet to be discovered by everyone else.

When the film begins, it dives right into the plot. Kip (Blayne Weaver) is upset and desperate when he shows up at his childhood friend's home. Marvin (Patrick Day) says he is more than glad to help and offers to do anything to help. Perhaps he spoke too soon, as Kip informs him that his mistress has just slipped and fell and died in a nearby motel room— and he wants Marvin to hide the body! After all, Kip reasons, he doesn't want to lose his wife or have it hurt his career! Marvin tells Kip not to worry and takes care of the 'problem'. Not surprisingly, this is NOT the end of the problem—otherwise it would only be a 15 minute movie! Serious complications arise and the apparent moral of the film is that if you want something right, you ought to do it yourself!

Soon, Marvin begins stopping by Kip's house and job all sorts of hours— often to chat or talk about the burial. This is bad enough, but soon Marvin begins asking Kip for all sorts of favors. First, he wants Kip to get him a date—but Marvin is out of work and rather boorish, so this is not small task! And, when this doesn't work out, Marvin feels that Kip has let him down and is angry! Second, Kip needs an assistant at work and Marvin INSISTS that Kip should hire him—even though he's grossly under-qualified and gets Kip in hot water with his boss for hiring such an incompetent. Third, Marvin asks Kip for a loan of $5000! The favors Marvin keeps asking seem to have no end and when Kip has finally had enough, Marvin becomes angry—very, very, very angry. And, when this moment occurs, the film starts to get very strange and very violent. Where all this goes is something to see, as there are some very interesting twists and turns—and they are sure to leave you guessing.

This is a very exciting thriller and is worth seeing. It isn't perfect, as there are a few amazingly brutal and disturbing scenes which I think could have been handled a bit less violently (yes, I am a bit squeamish and didn't need to see such realistic murders). Also, when you really think about what's happening, it really seems far-fetched. Yet, it's constructed so well that you'll probably find yourself like me—willing to suspend disbelief and able to buy into the story. Well done and I hope to see more from these folks.

By the way, I noticed one reviewer complained about fake reviews. This IS a serious problem and I've noticed several bad films with suspiciously glowing reviews (by reviewers with no other reviews to their credit). However, "Favor" is a very good film, so I am inclined to believe the other reviews.

Terrible

[svader · 1/10 · 22 April 2021]

Awful story Terrible acting Watched 10 minutes and hated it.

Film Features Faustian 'Favor'

[stu-00329 · 9/10 · 5 June 2016]

There is an old maxim: "A friend helps you move. A good friend helps you move a body." That's the basis of Favor, a new film from writer/director Paul Osborne (Official Rejection, Ten 'til Noon) that had its world premiere at the 2013 Phoenix Film Festival and won the award for Best Screenplay.

The movie begins as its poster suggests. Successful advertising pitch man Kip Desmond (Blayne Weaver) pays a late-night visit to a childhood friend, unemployed couch slouch Marvin Croat (Patrick Day). The small talk is awkward. Kip obviously has moved up in the world and left Marvin behind. And Marvin is self-conscious about it, repeatedly apologizing that he can only offer Kip beer, not scotch.

Kip finally gets to the point: He's been carrying on an extramarital fling with a waitress named Abby (Rosalie Ward). Following sex in a motel room earlier in the evening, he says, she started pressing him for some commitment. During the ensuing argument, he pushed her; her head slammed into a nightstand; and she was dead on the floor. Now he's asking his old buddy Marvin – who always was down for anything – to help him dispose of her body.

Kip drives Marvin to the motel and shows him the body, then they return to Marvin's house for materials. Marvin says he has a good idea of what needs to be done and tells Kip to go home to his wife because it would be suspicious if he were gone all night. Marvin assures Kip he'll clean up the mess.

The first half of the film is somewhat predictable. In the morning light, we see Marvin holding a shovel and staring at a newly filled grave in the desert. A little later, Kip is at home with his wife, Claire (Cheryl Nichols), lying about how busy he is with work and promising to make it up to her. But that's not why he promises to make her breakfast while she showers. He does that because he's glanced out the window, seen Marvin sitting out on the curb and needs her to go a away for a few minutes.

Marvin is acting oddly, expressing concern about who will feed the dead woman's cat. Kip just wants him to go away.

And therein lies the essence of Kip.

He used Abby, who was beneath him in more ways than one, then is concerned only with disposing of her – literally.

Now he wants Marvin to go away, telling him they need to lie low and that he'll be in touch in a few days.

Marvin agrees, but keeps showing up: at Kip's home; at Kip's office; at Kip's favorite diner. Marvin may be a schlub, but he isn't a fool. He's noticed Kip's lack of empathy for the cat, not to mention for Abby. Kip's only regret is that the incident briefly threatened his executive lifestyle.

When Friends Grow Apart

Marvin creates an escalating series of dilemmas in which Kip must choose between a lifestyle that has no place for Marvin and appeasing Marvin to protect that lifestyle. I could see this coming because of the movie's basic premise, but at some point the plot veers off the tracks in a dark but powerful way. It strips Kip to the bone, asking him – and by extension the audience – what we value most and what we're willing to sacrifice to protect that.

During the post-premiere Q&A, Osborne said one of his inspirations for Favor was the rise of Facebook. The social media platform has led users to retain, or even renew, relationships that previously would have died on the vine.

Most of us have that one friend from our past who's never really moved on. We maintain the friendship out of loyalty or nostalgia, even though we no longer have anything in common with the person. We can live with the occasional online update. But what if we found that person sitting on the curb in front of our home?

Day does an amazing job of making Marvin relatable even as he grows into a monster, kind of like the plant – "Feed me, Seymour!" – in Little Shop of Horrors. Day is director of the Young Actors Space, a school in Los Angeles for child and teen performers. During the Q&A, he said his biggest challenge in playing Marvin was figuring out how to make the audience like Marvin, at least on some level. Early in Favor, Marvin appears pleased that Kip needs him for something – anything. That gives credibility to the subsequent rage when he realizes just how little Kip values him.

Weaver does an nice job as Kip but had less of a challenge than Day. A major point of the film, after all, was the discovery of just how shallow Kip is. For most of the film, he seemed to channel a young, pre-drugs Jeff Conaway (Grease, Taxi, Babylon 5). In the final scene, however, he offers a piercing image of Kip as a man utterly devoid of conscience.

Favor may focus on a relationship between strong male characters, but a couple of actresses deliver spot-on performances. Nichols and Christina Rose – as Kip's wife and office assistant, respectively – are strong women puzzled by Marvin's sudden ubiquity, and even more so by Kip's inexplicable indulgence of it. Their portrayals of annoyance and confusion escalate along with Marvin's intrusiveness. In a metaphorical sense, of course, they reinforce social chasm that has formed between the childhood friends. The women are attainable for Kip, but out of Marvin's league.

###

Stuart J. Robinson practices writing, editing, media relations and social media through his business, Phoenix-based Lightbulb Communications.

Truly amazing movie.

[NickGepetto · 10/10 · 12 August 2015]

I am very, very critical of most movies. Especially these type of indie flix where the 2-bit actors recite their barely memorized lines one after another after another with little emotion. Or overact using the f-word to show their "range." Or act in ways no normal person ever would.

You won't find this in Favor, my friend.

I caught Favor on Comcast Xfinity Streampix last night and its the best movie I've seen in 5 years. Maybe 10. The casting, acting, script writing, character and plot development, and entertainment value are all 10 out of 10. I put it up their with Blood Simple, one of my top 10 of all time. The main character (Blayne Weaver) acts exactly like you would expect a man to act in his predicament. His wife (Cheryl Nichols) was amazing and it was hard to believe she was acting. What a star, and what a gorgeous woman. And the bad guy - Patrick Day. Wow. Maybe the best acting I have ever seen, and I mean ever.

Yes, there are some flaws. The policewoman and her smart alec demeanor was over the top and a throwaway part. The plot had a few minor holes, but so did The Departed and The Godfather. But even with these minor flaws, I still cannot recommend this movie more. It's low budget indie look and style add so much to the realism. Compare this to the piece of indie trash called "At The Sinatra Club" I saw the night before or the ridiculously stupid waste of celluloid "Iron Doors" I saw the night before that and one can see what a true masterpiece this is.

To all involved with this movie: Well done! BRAVO! Please make more just like it and this time get a major release so I don't have to catch your fine work two years later on Comcast.

What a Great Movie!

[danocaster · 9/10 · 7 September 2014]

I am totally speechless. I just watched this little indy thriller that I knew nothing about and it blew me away! Whoever the hell Paul Osbourne is, my guess is that we'll be hearing a lot more from him. This film is about a guy who inadvertently kills a woman he's been seeing on the side and gets his childhood friend to cover it up for him.However his loser friend starts demanding all sorts of stuff from him, like giving him money and hiring him in a job he's clearly not qualified to work at. This suspense just keeps building and building, the acting of the two primary actors is just amazing. Osbourne not only directed this but also wrote and photographed it as well. It is so rare to find an unknown flick that is as good as any thriller I've seen in a long time. Do yourself a Favor and rent or buy this. I will be watching this again real soon. Danny.

FAVOR Blew My Mind

[pampowell5 · 9/10 · 17 June 2013]

When a friend asks you to do a favor, you do it, right? How about helping to cover up an apparent murder? Would you do that favor? That's the situation in "Favor," a dark, intense psychological thriller. Kip, a successful marketing director, and Marvin, an out of work loser, had been friends since elementary school. As they each went in their separate and polar opposite directions, they grew apart. But when Kip's affair went awry, he called the one person he knew he could trust; Marvin. As Marvin cleaned up Kip's mess, Kip was completely indebted to Marvin. How far did Kip have to go before he paid his debt? When is it truly "Even Steven?"

This sharp, intelligent, and even at times witty, psychological thriller was unbelievably intense. The twists and turns it took were more wicked and dangerous than Mulholland Dr. on a dark and stormy night. The hole that Kip dug himself got deeper and deeper until you thought there was no way out. I was on the edge of my seat in anticipation of the next move. And when that next move occurred, it was shocking. At times, the inferred violence was a bit much for me, but added to the overall intensity of the movie.

Blayne Weaver and Patrick Day starred in this film by Paul Osbourne. Outstanding performances by all! I left the theater in awe. "Favor" is now one of my top psychological thrillers! Beware, there is violence, but if you like intense, smart, unpredictable films, this is one you won't want to miss.

One of the best low budget Indies I have seen...

[bostonkenpo · 10/10 · 27 September 2016]

I pleasantly stumbled across this movie and am really thankful that I did. I can't help but admire the writer and filmmaker, Paul Osborne. He not only crafted an amazing story that was filmed very well on what appears to be on an ultra low budget, he cast the film so well, especially with the two main actors, who's performances were stellar. Other than a couple of scenes that could have been stronger, I find this film to be an A+ across the board. Great story, solid dialogue, wonderful editing and simple story telling with the cinematography, which was a great choice for this type of story. Mr. Osborne really let the actor's performances and his writing tell this story and the result is a wonderful tale that shines thru and thru. I would love to see what this filmmaker would do with a large budget. I hope to see more of his work!

A film that leaves a film on you.

[movieguysla · 8/10 · 7 September 2013]

Kip Desmond seems like one of those guys who hit the lottery. Prosperous job, beautiful wife, he's just LUCKY. The durability of his luck gets a major test in Paul Osborne's new drama/thriller, "Favor".

There's no spoiler alert necessary to tell you the plot of this film. The concept is laid out in the first scene and fires out of the gate from there. The script is streamlined nicely to deliver this plot and not get involved in stray scenes that meander for no reason or jump into side plots that go nowhere.

Kip gets what he wants, and what he's wanted for sometime is Abby, a local waitress with whom he's been having an affair. But when things go bad (that bad), Kip ends up going to an old high school friend to help him get rid of the body. The high school friend, Marvin, agrees and…well, let's just say it doesn't go so well. Every attempt to keep the act and the situation clean gets foiled by blackmail, guilt or really bad decisions.

"Favor" follows the path of good modern day thrillers like "A Simple Plan" and "Blood Simple", apparently, movies with "Simple" in the title. But "Favor" is far from simple. Osborne has created a steady air of "uncomfortable" that permeates each scene as the choices the characters make become darker and more desperate. There's nothing more fun at the movies than watching characters get deeper and deeper in trouble, and there's no shortage of that in "Favor", as the stakes get raised in scene after scene, sometimes to funny, but often to shocking results.

Blayne Weaver plays Kip, a fine bit of casting, as Weaver can play weasel quite well. Patrick Day is the casting coup here, nailing pathetic loser who can turn around and be quite conniving. We all know and fear the hell out of the guy he's playing. They all live in our hometown, which is why we left there years ago. Other supporting cast members include Cheryl Nichols, Christina Rose, Rosalie Ward and Jeffrey Combs, but the film belongs to the leads just driving that story home. Again, a film this single-minded is refreshing.

The tech elements are consistent. As most indie films are, this is shot digitally, but unlike most indie features which go nuts with the depth of field 'cause "Yay! We can do that now! Just like film!", you're never saying to yourself, "Look at how nuts they've gone with the depth of field 'cause they can do that now. Just like film". Instead, the cinematography serves the greater picture of setting the tone. And the tone is dark. The intangibles are here that always set an indie apart from a major studio picture. As they're intangible, I don't know what they are, but all independent films have them – just…little things that make this film an indie, but I think Osborne's writing shows he could just as easily collaborate with Robert Richardson, Rick Carter and Michael Kahn, so guys, clear your calendars.

There's something enjoyable about watching the comeuppance of a white, privileged, entitled guy. I remember this guy Brad Wilkins from my college (yeah, his name was BRAD), and he never thought the rules applied to him. Man, I'd like to see him involved in the quagmire Kip finds himself in. And that's another positive quality of "Favor", you can't really root for Kip, or Marvin (or BRAD). They're pretty repellent guys. But you can't stop watching their story, and you hope the damage they cause doesn't spread.

But it does.

Enjoy.

Dark & Good

[Sub50 · 10/10 · 26 January 2020]

Found this movie after seeing another film from the same Director. This had some actors I hadn't seen before and a really good story. It took some dark turns, which were unexpected, and kept advancing the story.

Just shows you dont need millions to make a decent film!!

[joiningjt · 8/10 · 19 May 2021]

We really enjoyed this film my wife and I liked the story the excellent acting and for the budget they had phenomenal directing!! The creative story was done to an excellent success by the cast and crew. Now it's not an oscar contender or a epic film but it did what a movie is suppose to do , it entertained us!! Only flaw is if you have mr Combs in your film, give him more screen time!! We give it a solid 7.5 thus the 8 score.

Highly Recommended!

[msgpat · 10/10 · 7 March 2020]

Thoroughly enjoyed this movie. Two very well defined leading characters (Kip & Marvin). Great acting by all, including the minor roles. If you love a good plot (pun not intended) with twists, this is one for you!

Engrossing Thriller

[daviddunn-90653 · 9/10 · 24 November 2020]

For a low budget movie, with a relatively unknown cast, my hopes werent high. However, this turned out to be an engrossing 100 minutes with many twists and turns along the way. Well acted and well directed I really enjoyed it.

Great Indy Film!

[Michael-Aron · 8/10 · 12 September 2023]

Went to the screening of this movie in Sonoma along with an old co-star friend of mine. Wasn't sure what to expect from the film and was blown away at the cadence and depth off the performances of the cast.

Lots of subtle moments that keep you on the edge of your seat wondering if you have guessed how the ending might unfold. I've had the opportunity to work with Patrick Day, always knew he was talented, but I never got to see him in anything dramatic. This was a great project for him to spread his acting wings.

It's great to see so many independent films being made now, that can rival the look and feel of big studio productions. It's a good wake up call that the industry is changing and evolving and providing new avenues for creative people.

Bravo to the cast and crew for a great break from reality.

YOU ARE MY FRIEND, RIGHT?

[nogodnomasters · 8/10 · 6 October 2018]

Kip (Blayne Weaver) has it all: A beautiful wife (Cheryl Nichols), a nice house (except for painted cinder block walls), a great job, a beautiful mistress (Rosalie Ward) and a friend Marvin (Patrick Day) who helps him bury dead bodies. Of course being out of work, Marvin performs the dirty deed. Marvin has a very nice collection of recently emptied green beer bottles decorating his home. He requires favors in return from Kip that escalate.

This is a simple quirky low budget film with some uncomfortable settings and a nice twist of events. Acting and direction was decent. Limited flashbacks done well, i.e. you knew they were flashbacks and they served a purpose. Good pick for "Indie Night."

If you like this film, you might also like "Meeting Evil" which has a higher intensity factor.

Parental Guide: F-bomb. No sex or nudity.

Nice little gem

[Zando777 · 9/10 · 13 December 2022]

So this is clearly a low-budget indie film, like most films on Tubi. But if you go in with that expectation, you'll probably be pleasantly surprised. The movie has some very good acting, especially from the Marvin character. And it has some unexpected twists that keep it interesting. Also has an ending that is fairly satisfying, although nobody is really a hero in this.

Good to see an artistic little film that is watchable and a little different.

At times you'll find yourself asking what you would've done differently, to avoid the fate of the characters. In some ways, this has elements of a black comedy. And I just happened to catch the "Claire" actress in a documentary the other night about her grooming in high school. "Don't Tell Anyone", or something like that. All the actors appear somewhat familiar, although I don't know if I've actually seen them in anything besides that.