Fall from Grace (2007) User Reviews

A decent commentary about a group of sick losers

[planktonrules · 7/10 · 30 December 2007]

This documentary is about one of the most despicable and evil men living in America today. The Reverend Fred Phelps is a leader of a small cult in Kansas that has risen to national prominence due to their protests of funerals and churches--with its followers holding up placards that are mostly too offensive to list here on IMDb! Among the mildest of them is "God Hates America" and "Thank God for IEDs". The group takes sick pleasure in offending and makes no effort to actually convert. Their message is that God hates pretty much everyone and that THE message of the Bible is God's wrath and all-consuming hatred of everything about the US, Sweden, Ireland, Mexico and, well, pretty much EVERYONE but the 60-some members of his odd little hate filled church.

The documentary features many interviews with Phelps and his clan. It also features many interviews with community leaders, ministers and phone interviews with two of Phelps' own children who have left the cult and talk about the abusive nature of their clan.

About the only aspects of the film I didn't particularly care for were some quotes from other ministers (such as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson). While their views on homosexuality might offend some, they never in their worst days came close to the evil hatred-spewing methods of Phelps and his smug followers, so playing the "moral equivalency card" seems inappropriate.

For a slightly more succinct and more interesting view of the Phelps cult, try watching the one hour British documentary "The Most Hated Family in America". While featuring far less of Phelps himself (he was too surly and hate-filled when they tried interviewing him so they had little footage of this maniac in action), they let the kids in the cult do a lot more talking and the film maintained a tighter focus--as a few of the interviews from FALL FROM GRACE seemed a tad weak.

Reaping the whirlwind

[JohnSeal · 7/10 · 27 December 2007]

What could be more perfect than a culture clash between the inflexible biblical fundamentalists of Westboro Baptist Church and the knee-jerk worshipers of the death dealing American war machine? Such is the subject of this fascinating if too brief look at the exploits of the lunatic Rev. Fred Phelps and his clan of angry and twisted offspring, who picket military funerals and believe American troops should die for the sin of gay civil rights. It's hard to know who's worse: the picketers, who spout the most venomous sentiments whilst desecrating funeral ceremonies that, regardless of one's opinions about the military or war, should be respected as private ceremonies; or those like Sean Hannity (oh irony of ironies) who would take away the Phelps' constitutional right to express themselves. In fact, much of the anti-Phelps commentary in this film is gleaned from Fox News, whose right-wing talking heads are probably appalled that Fred Phelps and co. have torn away the smiley face mask and revealed the wormy interior at the heart of the American 'conservative' movement. A remarkable and revealing document in more ways than one.

Does god hate Fred Phelps?

[lastliberal · 8/10 · 6 December 2007]

I cannot imagine anyone concerned with civil rights that is not aware of the Phelps family and Westboro Baptist Church, yet they did not hit my radar until they had been protesting for a few years. It was their appearance at the Matthew Shepard funeral that brought them to my attention. Their protests at the funerals of fallen soldiers in Iraq brought them to the attention of most Americans.

My generation is used to hate-mongers. We have had Hitler and Stalin. We have preachers like Robertson, Dobson, Fallwell and others, but no one is above Fred Phelps in his pure hatred of anyone who does not agree with him. It is hard to understand what motivates such people. My personal feeling is that they were probably not breastfed. Just a theory, but it is probably as good as any.

K. Ryan Jones put together enough footage to give us some insight into what drives Phelps, but he cannot know the complete picture. The anger inside this man in put forth by his own words, the words of his children and grandchildren, and the fact that he has managed to alienate all who come into contact with him to the point that he was disbarred and had to turn to hating gays, lesbians, and trans-gendered, or "fags" as he calls them to have an outlet for his anger.

You hear from his own children who have escaped the physical abuse they endured growing up, and you see the new generation of grandchildren who are indoctrinated to hate without understanding what it is that they hate. His children are like Nike, they tell their children to "Just do it." Anyone who is interested in civil rights, and combating hatred in American should check this film out. It is currently getting wide play on Showtime.

Was Fred Phelps truly the antichrist the media made him out to be?

[take2docs · 7/10 · 1 July 2023]

I recall rather frequently seeing news coverage of the infamous Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church throughout the 1990s, especially. Despite Freddie and his fellow picketing sidewalk preachers being vilified in the media, it appears they also made for good copy and video clips/sound bites most memorable, known as they were for their provocative signage and outspoken verbal remarks, denouncing homosexuality in particular.

FALL FROM GRACE is a look back on this time period in the life of pastor Phelps and the fundamentalist church he presided over in Topeka, Kansas. His was a flock of about 80 members, made up in large part of extended family; the dutiful multiplier that he was, in his fathering of 13 children (5 boys, 8 girls).

As perceived by Phelps and his followers, America represented a modern-day Sodom and Gomorrah and therefore, as Bible-believing literalists, highly deserving of their strong condemnations. Nor did they have patience for so-called liberal Christians, who in their eyes watered down and twisted God's Word, being as they were just as critical of these smooth-talkers, for their arguably unchristian -- if not outright devilish -- (mis)interpretations of Scripture.

Before sitting down to watch this documentary, I had the chance of getting to hear one ex-member of the Westboro Baptist Church, Megan Phelps-Roper, interviewed (twice) by podcaster Sam Harris. If there's one thing I took away from these two interviews, it's what Ms. Phelps-Roper, author of the book "Unfollow," had emphasized with regard to the intelligence level of many of the adults within the church, one she would end up leaving in 2012. Often portrayed in the media as 'uneducated' and 'backward,' we are informed that, on the contrary, these were highly intelligent people, some of whom practiced law.

I kept this in mind as I watched the film, one that -- however objective it appears or intends to be -- seems to want to leave the viewer with the same impression of the Westboro Baptist Church as how the media has over the years oversimplistically if not disingenuously portrayed them -- as one-dimensional, low-minded caricatures, to be pitied.

However, I think one does well to consider just how faithful to the Bible Mr. Phelps was and whether he merited his being looked down upon as if some cartoonish monster. For instance, did he play it up when in front of the camera, as if an attention-seeker? (As an aside, it's interesting that within psychology, it is presumed of many men who project an image of tough masculinity, of their being latent in their true affections.)

In FALL FROM GRACE we hear from a few who although identifying as Christian, may leave you to wonder. Although a non-Christian myself, and as one certainly not condoning of Phelps' crass ministerial style, it seems to me Fred's reading of Scripture and concept of God as depicted in the canon was closer to the letter than those who glibly and spuriously read loopholes into the hypothetical inspired text.

True, Jesus never talked about homosexuality (as one interviewer takes to verbally underscoring)...and yet omission doesn't automatically imply tacit approval. Another claim is put forth, that when the Apostle Paul speaks of homosexuality that this is in reference to pederasty...and yet isn't there a Pauline verse that makes it abundantly clear when it speaks of 'men who lie with men'? Yes, God is one of mercy and forgiveness...on the condition that one is truly repentant of his sin(s). As in the equally watchable documentary film "For The Bible Tells Me So," there is specious reasoning aplenty in this, expressed by those of whom it could be said might as well be entirely secular in their lifestyles and opinions.

In response to comments made by some in the film: Does not the Bible tell of a God who finds 'this' detestable and 'that' abominable? Numerous times it does, from beginning to end. The point being, if Phelps was a hatemonger, which he no doubt was, a strong case could be made that he was only a reflection of the deity whom he loved and worshipped. After all, did not Jesus speak, judgmentally, more of Hell than he did of (an all-inclusive) heaven?

In sum, if the case is made of the Bible being a highly intolerant set of books ('narrow is the gate' and all that), then maybe preachers like the Fred Phelps of the world are only out doing what is also in their constitutional right to do -- however irksome this is for those into political correctness and to those who perhaps only pretend to be scripturally illiterate.

A Powerful Examination of Hate-mongering

[JustCuriosity · 9/10 · 10 March 2007]

This film has its world premiere as Austin's SXSW Film Festival. It would have been very easy for first-time filmmaker Ryan Jones to make a one-sided polemic about hate-mongering Rev. Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, KS. Phelps despicable "God hates fags" theology and their protests especially at military funerals are clearly beyond the pale.

However Jones opted to try to dig deeper. Much of the film allows Phelps and the member of his extended family (which makes up most of his "church") to speak for themselves. While the film provides plenty of space to Phelp's critics, it also allows Phelps and his family to hang themselves with their close-minded bigoted rhetoric. The interviews with two of Phelps' children who have left his church are particularly revealing. Most of all, the film shows that what they preach is anything, but the true spirit of Christian charity and generosity. The film shows that this is an ideology of hate disguised as Christianity. The film also explores some themes such as the extent of free speech which have long been associated with the famous Neo-Nazi march in Skokie.

This film deserves to be seen by a wider audience so that people can see the true face of intolerance and the dangerous power of a charismatic leader to cause great pain and suffering. I suspect Jesus would cry at what Phelps is doing in his name. Jones should be commended for this powerful piece of film-making.

A Fairly Objective Look at the Westboro Baptist Church

[gavin6942 · 7/10 · 11 February 2013]

The shocking story of Reverend Fred Phelps, the Westboro Baptist Church, those who oppose it, and those who chose to leave it all behind.

This documentary was released in 2007, and as I write this it is 2013. The church has not gone away, but has actually grown more well-known. Fred Phelps still lives and the family still preaches its message.

I liked that this film tried to be fair. I think it is likely the director is opposed to the Westboro gang, as most people are. They are a church opposed by both left and right-leaning people, which makes them rather unique. Even those who oppose gay rights want nothing to do with these guys.

What I personally find even more interesting than their beliefs (which seem half-baked and not well-anchored) is the First Amendment issue. As awful as it is to protest a military funeral or say things like God loves 9/11, this is not a crime. And we should all be thankful it is not a crime. Do they abuse their rights? I think they do. But it is a right we are lucky to have.

Where is the love?

[EXodus25X · 8/10 · 26 July 2008]

I have never experience such a range of emotions while watching a film, from anger and rage to down right disappointment and sadness. Something has gone terribly wrong in the mind of the Phelps family. They are the reason that Christians around the world are stereotyped into these kind of hate mongers. I am dumb founded by these people, in the ultimate act of love and sacrifice their God sent his only son to die for their and all of our sins. Sins that in Gods mind are all equally horrible yet Jesus at no time held up signs or preached that God hated anyone be it any kind of sinner. So from such an act of love these people have choose to express nothing but hate. I simply don't understand, I am so imperfect that to damn anyone for there sins would make me feel like the worlds biggest hypocrite, the only one qualified for that is God. A pastor in this film I thought said it best when he said he preaches what Jesus preached and chooses to stay silent on the issues Jesus chose to stay silent on. I would assume that if God felt that homo-sexuality was this huge issue then his son would have made a more clear stance in the Bible so it would not be open to interpretation by individuals. Personally I have my beliefs and I stand strongly behind them but I do not force those beliefs onto anyone else and my goal isn't to force anyone to believe what I believe but for the LOVE of Jesus to shine through me, the LOVE. That's what it's all about, that's the very cornerstone of Christianity, how do you loose that? So to the Phelps family I don't have words of anger or hate for you even though I disagree so completely with what you do, to the Phelps I have just one question, where is the love?

We're all in trouble if God hates signs

[StevePulaski · 8/10 · 2 November 2011]

Even though the Westboro Baptist Church is such a disgraceful, ugly, and inhumane group of hatemongers, the documentary Fall From Grace needed to be made. It touches on a sensitive topic, like many documentaries about politics or religion, but its filmmaker, University of Kansas student K. Ryan Jones, refuses to share his political side and conducts this documentary in a mature and non-biased manner. A respectable, rare occurrence in self-made films.

The Westboro Baptist Church is a church located in Topeka, Kansas that has been spreading the "true" words of God for over fifty years. They have protested soldier's funerals, held assemblies in public, and have went as far as creating numerous websites with hateful names. The Pastor of the church is Fred Phelps, an eighty-one year old man who is filled with so much rage and hate he'll probably make your grandfather look like he follows the way of grace.

Phelps is hate-filled and unapologetic as he arranges his church, mostly members of his immediate family, to protest certain homosexual events and funerals. They proudly hoist signs saying "God Hates You," "God Hates Fags," and even going as far as saying "Thank God for Dead Soldiers." His messages are clear, but his ways are atrocious. Unlike most churches, he looks to hatred from peers as a measure of accomplishment.

As claimed by one of his sons named Timothy Phelps, the church's goal is to "Put the cup of God's fury to the lips of this nation and make them drink." Because of their messages and their ways the town of Topeka is called "scum," and an interview with Mayor Bill Bunten says that he gets numerous calls and emails every day claiming they do something about the church.

Why haven't we done anything to the church? Because we'd be hypocrites. The first amendment gives American citizens the right to freedom of speech, press, religion, and assembly. While their views are unpopular and radical, they are truly in their guidelines as far as respecting the amendment goes. Is it morally right to do such an act? That's a personal opinion.

Clips of Pastor Phelps play frequently during the film. There he is in his brown-walled church, shouting at the top of his lungs in front of about a dozen people while his chilling voice echoes throughout the room. He tells us how homosexuals are "beasts" and are "willingly ignorant" towards the country. He states the homosexuals and the homosexual-enablers will be dismissed into hell after their life is complete. It's as bigoted and as hateful as it gets.

Phelps claims the church is a branch off of Christianity, when really, it is the furthest thing from it. Christianity was founded on forgiveness, love, compassion, honor, and loyalty. Phelps' church, I don't know what else to call it, was founded on bigotry, impulse, hatred, cruelty, and arrogance. They have zero respect for people who are just as human as they are.

Many protests are shown, and while anger from it all emerges inside of us, we get a look at the children. Let's call them the victims. The victims are brought up on a biased view on the world, and their parents prevent them from seeking out other beliefs and learning about others ways of life. They can see that other people disapprove of what they are doing, but those children don't know what those people are thinking. But what they personally were brought up on.

When Jones interviews some of the Phelps' children, he asked one who they specifically preach their messages to. The boy states "We preach to fags that the lord will kill them if they don't abide by The Ten Commandments." Another child says "When people mock us I'm mad enough to kill them, but I'll leave that to God." If any other child said such words at that age they'd be severely punished. If a Phelps child says that they are rewarded.

More interviews are conducted with Phelps' attorney and many children of the Pastor. Out of the thirteen children Phelps and his wife had, four left the family and are completely distant from the church. Two of the children, Dortha and Nate Phelps, are given over-the-phone interviews during the documentary. Nate claims that his father has the equal immaturity of a fourth grader, and that if any of his brothers or sisters ever questioned his ways of teaching they were whipped with a mattock handle. Sometimes, even if their father was just angry he would take violence out on the children.

Fall From Grace is a documentary that is seriously disturbing, and it comes with a eerie, unidentified presence. Maybe it's just because of the subject matter, or the fact this was in the hands of first time filmmaker, still in school. At only seventy-one minutes, it just scratches the large surface of such a checkered family and their beliefs. Despite this documentary being very informative, a mainstream documentary needs to be considered and made as soon as possible. The fact that people still are unaware of the Westboro Church and their ways demands a wake up call. And not a pleasant one.

This documentary will anger, frustrate, infuriate, and sadden any patriot or someone who just has respect for America and its well-being. Everyone's reaction will be different, but everyone will be informed and educated on such a movement that threatens the very limits of our first amendment.

Starring: The Phelps Family. Directed by: K. Ryan Jones.

Valuable insights

[Michael Fargo · 8/10 · 11 February 2011]

While there's a lot of repetition in this documentary, it's valuable primarily for it's access to the Phelps family who have no hesitation to speak their beliefs. It's often easy to dismiss bigotry as ignorance, but here we see it serves other purposes. The need to hate outwardly masks an inward deficit which permits that deficiency to go unaddressed. The filmmakers let a lot slide by: allegations of abuse, the circumstances for the Phelps' disbarment, the tax benefits of being a church when only your family are members, the misuse/misquotation of scripture to name a few.

While its useful to have the Phelps speak for themselves, those who counter their arguments aren't nearly as passionate or convincing (I agree with them, but their statements aren't developed by the filmmaker).

The two most chilling moments come from family members themselves. There are taped telephone conversations about why two of the children left their family, and the analysis of their father's "issues" seemed very accurate. And the older children who will carry forward their father's legacy are so one-dimensional in their hatred that it borders on madness.

The use of the family's placards becomes plodding and repetitious. More effective is when the grandchildren (roughly 8 or 9) are asked which signs are their favorite to carry at their pickets around the World. While most children will recite various Biblical passages as their "favorite" and would be unable to elaborate further what those passages meant, these children recite hate speech which is deeply shocking, but of course they are unable to elaborate what those slogans really mean. But I also found that their parents really couldn't do much more to explain their hatred. Their vehement denunciation of homosexuality and the government was just as lacking as their relationship to and understanding of themselves and the world at large.

Poorly Edited

[abark · 5/10 · 22 February 2009]

The director would have done well to hire an outside editor.

The poor editing takes away from the film.

For example, while showing an interview with a woman who is talking about her husband who was a soldier.

Text is shown explaining that he had been killed in Iraq when he was 22.

The next shot is the woman saying 'I was so excited!'

The editing during the interviews with two of Phelps' estranged children was also fairly tedious and kind of annoying.

Other than that it's a fairly entertaining doc.

misuse of faith

[lee_eisenberg · 9/10 · 5 January 2012]

Fred Phelps has run the Westboro Baptist Church for over 50 years, but the church only grew famous after it picketed the funeral of hate crime victim Matthew Shepard. Since then, it has staged protests at the funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq, alleging that the troops got killed because America tolerates homosexuality.

Ryan Jones's documentary "Fall from Grace" is a look at Phelps and his congregation, which consists largely of his family. It features interviews with people who consider Phelps evil, but there are also interviews with Phelps and his family, who all make themselves look psychotic.

The point is that Phelps has twisted the gospel to fit his narrow-minded views, as have numerous other clergymen. Even so, the price of free speech is that we have to allow even the most repulsive speech. This is a documentary that everyone should see.

In the past year, the WBC picketed the funerals of Christina-Taylor Green (a nine-year-old girl killed in the attack on Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords) and stunt performer Ryan Dunn. The WBC had planned to picket the funerals of Elizabeth Taylor and Steve Jobs, but then canceled their plans.

both sides only present, no hard questions asked

[jaroslaw99 · 5/10 · 11 May 2012]

I really wanted to like this film for educational value, but the filmmaker only presented both sides without asking any of the hard questions. One reviewer said that the Phelps Clan was allowed much unedited time to talk and was allowed to "hang themselves". I doubt if the Phelps's or their sympathizers feel that way, more on that below in the hard questions section. Frankly they didn't sound as nutty in the film as they have in the past on other TV shows and radio programs I have heard. For example, I can't remember the DVD, but Fred Phelps said without any qualifiers "this country is doomed." Well, he was much more precise but I remember clearly thinking "ok, if there is nothing we can do, why don't you sit down , shut up and wait for the end?" Perhaps in fairness, the producer wasn't able to ask pointed questions, but if he spent a month with them and felt comfortable, seems like he could have or at least explained why he didn't in the bonus features. For example - do the Phelps clan all agree, all 13 children? If so, that is amazing. I suspect some don't, interview them too! Does he feel his ministry is a success if they don't attract any new members? Is there any value at all in loving your neighbor as yourself or does that only apply to people you agree with? Do soldiers protect their rights too, not just "fags?" Or are soldiers completely unnecessary? What about the Good Samaritan? The reason that story is so powerful, which is often lost today is because Jews and Samaritans hated each other. At the very least, doesn't Christian charity at least mean being courteous enough not to shout over someone else during a debate? In essence ask these people why they believe as they do. Best yet, and so far unexplored in the debates I have seen - most of the clan are lawyers. Someone should mention that the free speech they cling to strongly is also constitutionally matched with the idea that people are free to believe in any religion they want or none at all. No one seems to have ever mentioned this that I'm aware of. As an aside, I wish the Phelps clan felt as strongly about dishonest politicians and big business. Not charging interest is in the Bible too! There's much more, but I would say the opposition in the film was way too tepid and this film does not really give most people any new information despite being well done.

Religious intolerance, accept it or shut it out

[pabald9480 · 13 November 2011]

I'll be honest from the get-go: I haven't seen this film, but would like to. I despise the rev. message of hatred and intolerance, and I think even God would agree with that, but I don't hate him. However, even the film is likely very well done, nothing Phelps and his ilk have to say, will get me to understand/respect him, cause he doesn't know the meaning of the word,why should I show him any back? I know a lot of religious people will disagree with that, because of Jesus' teachings, but I do believe in an eye for an eye, within reason, of course. As for loving your enemies, with people like Phelps, I find that almost impossible, and will not back down from that opinion. I don't believe God hates anyone, but some of our actions, I do believe he frowns upon: killing, raping, prejudice/hatred, the list could go on, but I'm running out of steam.I don't claim to be an expert by any spectrum, but I'm hoping readers get something out of this comment, I try very hard not to step on anyone's toes, but it sometimes backfires.

Update, August 28, 2012) well I just watched this on Netflix last night, and I'm sorry to say that my intitial review pretty much sums it up, basically, I don't have that much to add. However, I'll leave you with this: even though it may anger you, it's required viewing for anyone who wants to join the civil rights movement, so you know what you're dealing with, too bad it only scratches the surface.