"Angel" Forgiving (TV Episode 2002) Poster

(TV Series)

(2002)

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8/10
This episode just break my heart
katierose29527 February 2007
Warning: Spoilers
This episode blew me back on the sofa cushions the first time I saw it. Not the whole thing, just the last ten minutes. It's brutal. We learn that Angel's baby can never come back, that Shajahn rigged the prophesy and, in probably the most shocking scene of the series, that Angel wants to kill Wes. When Angel walked into Wesley's hospital room, I really thought that he was going to try and reach out to Wes. Instead, he launches in a screaming, out of control frenzy and tries to suffocate Wesley will his own pillow. I have never seen Angel so angry or Wes so broken. The episode ends with my heart just breaking for both of them. Anyway, this is a very important episode to the show's story arc and you need to see it.

"Forgiving" revolves around Angel's reactions to Conner's abduction. He is crazed to get his son back and he's willing to do whatever he has to get it done. He starts by kidnapping Linwood and torturing him for some information on how to re-corporealize Shajahn. Linwood quickly gives into Angel and sends him to the White Room at Wolfram and Hart, which is a magical place run by an evil little girl. She gives Angel the spell he needs, but there will be a price. In the meantime, Fred and Gunn are searching for Wes. The discover his Watcher journals and realize that he's been trying to protect Conner.

Back at the hotel, Angel performs the ritual and Shajahn is re-corporealized across town. Angel goes to hunt him down and demand that he take him to that hell dimension after Conner. Shajahn says that opening the portal was a one time thing and Conner can never return. Which actually suits Shajahn perfectly, as he finally admits that Conner was really the one he's been after this whole time. He saw a prophesy that foretold that Conner would kill him and so he set things into motion to stop it. He tampered with the prophesy, adding "The father will kill the son" part and he's thrilled that it worked. He's less thrilled when Justine traps him in a magical jar. Wes is taken to the hospital. Lorne advises Angel to try and forgive him, but Angel can't. He tries to smother Wes with a pillow and has to be drug from the room.

There on some good parts to this episode. I like the White Room, which will come into play in seasons four and five. Elevators are always played as sort of sinister in "Angel." They took Angel to "hell" with Holand Manners back in season two, and now they lead to this mystical sort of evil conduit. It's interesting. And Fred is really starting her tough side. She shot that guy last episode and now she punches Justine. She's coming into her own. Also, it's cool that Wes kept Diaries on Angel. He was trained by the Council and he's been seeing himself as Angel's Watcher.

On the downside, I don't think it's fair to say that Wes was tricked by the prophesy. The thing about prophesies in the Buffyverse is that the more you try to get around them, the more you play right in fate. Watching the rest of the series, I think it's pretty clear that Wes was right. The father WILL kill the son, but in trying to stop it, all Wesley does is set it into motion. By the same token, Shajahn is sealing his own doom by messing with the prophesy. Ensuring that it will come true. I think that this all applies to the Shanshu Prophesy, too. If you try to mess with a prophesy, then you're SUPPOSE to mess with it. It's all part of the series of events that needs to occur for the prophesy to come true. Just my opinion.

My favorite part of the episode: It's sort of sad, but I like how every side in this horrible mess respects or understands Wes's situation. Lorne, Fred and Gunn say that he was trying to help. Even Angel knows it on some level. Justine admires Wes for sacrificing for the greater good. Shajahn praises Wes's spine. Wolfram and Hart are even impressed (something that will come into play later.) Everybody gets why Wesley did what he did, but the poor guy still winds up alone.
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8/10
Angel's Out for Blood
Samuel-Shovel30 July 2018
Warning: Spoilers
In "Forgiving", the gang tries to track down Wesley and figure out just what he was thinking when he kidnapped Connor. Meanwhile Angel tries to get into the hell dimension where Holtz took Connor. He kidnaps Murrow and forces him to bring out Sahjhan. While attempting to summon him, Angel accidentally brings back Sahjhan in a corporeal form. Gunn and Fred learn that Justine slit Wesley's throat. Angel battles Sahjhan and seems about to be staked before Justine forces him into a bottle genie style. Angel visits Wesley in the hospital and tries to kill him as the episode closes.

Angel's tried to kill his friends in the past whenever he momentarily lapses back to being Angelus, but this is a whole new level. This is Angel whose attempting to kill Wes, not Angelus. He's out for revenge after what happened to Connor and no one is going to stand in his path. What this episode didn't reveal though is what will happened to Justine. Will she be charged with attempted murder? With kidnapping? Will she change her ways and help Angel Investigations? Where is Cordy? When will she come back? There are a lot of questions to answer moving forward but this was another solid episodes.
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9/10
Prophecies Over People
spasek6 January 2023
Warning: Spoilers
Wesley's big mistake wasn't just taking Connor away. It was the fact that he never bothered to talk to Angel or anyone else from the team. He trusted a piece of paper over the closest people in his life, and that is what makes his betrayal even more poignant.

It's ironic because many people in the world are just like Wesley. They trust a book or a piece of paper over people. Don't believe me? Entire religions have formed over this idea. People who treat everything written in the Bible, the Koran, or any other book as gospel. There is nothing more dangerous in this world than treating something written as gospel. Wars and countless lives have been lost throughout history--and continue to be--due to something written by other men.

Angel, of course, is desperately trying to find a way into the dimension to get his son back, even if it means temporarily teaming up with Lilah--again. Meanwhile, Fred and Gunn are trying to find Wesley and hopefully get some answers as to why he did what he did.

While one can understand--to a point--why Wesley did what he did--it's hard to feel sorry for a person who puts more stock in a prophecy than those closest to him. And I was a little surprised that neither Gunn nor Fred could see that side of things, nor really empathizing with Angel over the loss of his son. There aren't many things more tragic than the loss of a child, and when you understand that, you can understand why Angel's reaction at the end of this episode fits with how any parent would react.
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10/10
Don't get me wrong, I like trouble, but I hate chaos
SleepTight66627 May 2007
Warning: Spoilers
Don't get me wrong, I like trouble, but I hate chaos - The end of one of my favorite arcs of the show. Everything was stunning, I think it even comes close to 'Sleep Tight'. It's always fun to see cranky 'Angel', especially because he gets to do things like torturing 'Lindwood'. I think this episode could have easily been a season finale, just as the previous. I loved the white room with the creepy little girl, I loved how 'Angel' grabbed 'Lilah's neck when the little girl asked to kill her without hesitating. 'Sahjhan' was also excellent, he's such a fun bad guy - Do I look like I need more skin problems?. 'Justine' was also great, depressed and dark as always but in the end she came through and captured 'Sahjhan' into one of those urn thingies. It was also good to finally learn why 'Sahjhan' was after the 'Angel', it's because 'Connor' was going to kill him. The best scene of the episode was undoubtedly the last one where 'Angel' grabs a pillow and tries to smother 'Wesley' with it. Just absolutely brilliant and shocking. ANGEL: Hey, Wes. I just... I want you to know I understand why you did it. I know about the prophecies and I know how hard it must have been for you to... do what you did. You thought I was going to turn evil and kill my son. I didn't turn into Angelus. It's important to me that you know that. This isn't Angelus talking to you, it's me, Angel. You know that, right? Good. (10 out of 10)
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8/10
Team Angel rent asunder
Joxerlives5 March 2012
Warning: Spoilers
FORGIVING

The Good; Some great acting from Amy Acker as Fred is horrified that Connor has been lost to a portal, just as she was. The little girl in the White Room is a really creepy little moppet.

The Bad; Gunn and the orderlies seem to overpower Angel at the hospital very easily (although I guess that settles the whole question of Angelus' confrontation with Xander in 'Killed by death'. Thinking back on the cops/security guards in that scene would probably have had tasers which is weapon that seems to affect vamps a lot. Although bullets are no joke to them either)

Best line: Angel; (heartbroken) "Cordy will be back soon, with presents for Connor"

Jeez, how did they get away with that? Lilah cutting her hand just like Darla, the whole 'women cope better with pain' idea certainly gets a lot of mileage in Joss's shows. Angel meanwhile prepares to stick a needle in Linwood's eye. Angel attempts to smother Wes and is quite prepared to kill Lilah to get his son back. Justine is beaten to a pulp, so much so that even Gunn feels sorry for her. Fred using the hot coals against Sahjhan is pretty damn ruthless.

Apocalypses: 5

Angel Clichés Inverting the Hollywood cliché; we think Angel will forgive Wes after he's so compassionate to the poor guy at the accident but oh boy he doesn't! Sahjahn mocks the standard Hollywood buddy-cop thriller. AI are getting hammered by Sahjahn but get saved by Justine?

In disguise; 8

DB get's his shirt off; 12

Cheap Angel; 9

Fang Gang in bondage: Cordy: 5 Angel: 11 Wes: 6 Gunn; 4 Lorne; 3 Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out: Cordy: 11 Angel: 14 Wes: 5 Doyle; 1 Gunn; 1 Lorne; 4

Kills: Cordy: 5 vamps, 3 demons Angel; 39 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 7 humans Doyle; 1 vamp Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans Kate; 3 vamps Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans. Gunn; 10 vamps+ 10 demons. Groo; 1 demon Fred; 1 vamp

Fang Gang go evil: Cordy: 2 Angel: 2 Gunn; 1 Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang: Cordy: 2 Angel: 8

Characters killed: 46

Recurring characters killed; 8;

Total number of Angel Investigations: 7, Angel, Cordy, Wes, Gunn, Fred, Lorne and Groo

Angel Investigations shot: Angel: 11 Wes; 1

Packing heat; Gunn refers to the shotgun Wes keeps that we saw in Epiphany Wes; 6 Doyle; 1 Angel; 2 Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Cordy: 4 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde Gunn; 1 Fred Fred; 1 Gunn Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky: Angel tell Justine he isn't her boyfriend and she should find someone else to smack her around.

Captain Subtext; Sahjhan once again demonstrates his insecurity about his masculinity, insisting he flitted in a 'manly way'

Know the face, different character; 4

Parking garages; 5,

Guantanamo Bay; Linwood get's kidnapped and threatened with torture

Buffy characters on Angel; 16 Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony

Questions and observations; Shouldn't Linwood know who Lorne is? Surely Lorne's concern for humans and disregard for 'slimy demons' is hypocritical. Like any good Watcher Wes keeps comprehensive diaries. Why do people always cut the palm of their hands in films? Surely that's one of the most sensitive parts?

Marks out of 10; 8/10 here comes the emotional pain but it's SUPREMELY well done.
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7/10
Why do people keep trusting Wes?
smitjef15 November 2017
Warning: Spoilers
At what point do you stop trusting Wesley? This isn't the first time he's betrayed the group "for the greater good". It was on Buffy but still it was Angel he kind of screwed over that time as well. I do love the pillow smothering. However I would never trust this nut job anywhere near me again. Its a super vague prophecy too. If in 30 years Conner turns evil and Angel has to kill him that would meet the prophecy too. Also if your a trust worthy teammate you talk to your team and don't plot with the enemy. After Gunn & Fred's reaction to his betrayal I have some excellent property in Florida I'd love to sell them, its just slightly damp.
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