Silver Saddle (1978) Poster

(1978)

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7/10
Straightforward, but good anyway
Bezenby30 December 2018
Fulci's third and final Western may have a straightforward plot, but the whole thing is so well made I couldn't help but like it anyway. In HD, parts of it look like an oil painting.

Guiliano Gemma plays Silver Saddle, a guy who required his saddle by killing the guy who killed his father at the age of ten. Since then, Gemma has wandered the land and hating on the family who hired the guy who killed his dad. Or something like that.

While out one day, Gemma bumps into Two Strike Snake (Geoffrey Lewis, who I did not expect to see turn up in an Italian film), Snake likes to loot dead bodies and knows Gemma because he's famous for leaving bodies everywhere. Eventually, Lewis manages to talk Gemma into taking an assassination job - that of one of the hated family. Gemma's all up for that...until he discovers that the target is a child, and even though Gemma hates that family, he does not kill kids. But who wants him dead?

I've not watched Massacre Time, but compared to Four of The Apocalypse this film is a lot less violent. It's still violent mind you (head shots etc) but no one eats anyone else's arse like in Apocalypse. No Tomas Milian types writhing about in filth screaming either. It's tale of the good guys versus the bad guys, with all the usual ingredients thrown in, like Mexican bandits, greedy landowners and corrupt sheriffs, but seeing as how it's made by Fulci with his best crew, I have no complaints whatsoever.

And that includes the soundtrack. I though it added a slight melancholy atmosphere to the film. Is this really known as the last ever Spaghetti Western?
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5/10
Way Inferior To Fulci's Other Two Westerns
Witchfinder-General-66624 January 2007
Lucio Fulci's "Sella D'Argento" aka "Silver Saddle" of 1978 is the last, and in my opinion the least interesting out of three Westerns directed by Fulci (not including his co-directing of Julio Buchs' "A Bullet For Sandoval" of 1969). "Silver Saddle" is definitely not a bad or boring Spaghetti Western, it is actually a fairly good movie, and Giuliano Gemma plays the lead very good, but I personally expected a little more from a Fulci Western, particularly after great "Tempo Di Massacro" aka "Massacre Time" of 1966 (with the great Franco Nero in the lead), and the moving though sadistic "Quatro Dell'Apocalisse" aka. "Four Of The Apocalypse", which was maybe no Spaghetti Western masterpiece, but which I personally liked a lot.

"Silver Saddle" starts out very good, when little Roy Blood witnesses the murder of his father by a henchman of the powerful Barrett Clan, and subsequently subsequently shoots the murderer and takes his saddle, which is adorned with silver. Grown up, Roy Blood (Giuliano Gemma) has become a deadly gunslinger, who still uses the silver saddle. After befriending a crook named Two Strike Snake (Geoffrey Lewis), Roy obtains an opportunity to kill the patriarch of the Barret Clan, and therefore ultimately avenge his father's death. When Roy hides where he suspects his arch enemy, however, a little boy shows up instead. Some thugs try to assassinate the kid and Roy keeps them from doing so by shooting them all...

...and at this point things started to bother me. Cute little kids in bigger roles may work fine in many movies, but they do certainly not belong into a Spaghetti Western directed by Lucio Fulci. The little kid was probably intended to be 'cute' and/or 'funny', but, I'm sorry to say this, I just found the little brat annoying as hell, and although he even admittedly is funny in some points of the film, the whole movie could have been a lot better without him.

Nevertheless, "Silver Saddle" is entertaining in most of its parts. A Spaghetti Western enthusiast, I have utmost respect for Giuliano Gemma for his performances in such films as "Day Of Anger" or "The Price Of Power", but I have never numbered Gemma among my favorite Spaghetti Western actors, since he hardly ever embodied the typical antihero, but was more of a typical 'good guy' in most of his films. Nevertheless, Gemma fits perfectly in some roles, and one has to say that his performance in "Sella D'Argento" is very good, and I could hardly imagine anybody else playing the role of Roy Blood. Geoffrey Lewis also delivers a very good, funny performance as Gemma's buddy Snake. The supporting cast furthermore contains two truly great Spaghetti Western regulars, Donal O'Brien, who only has a small role, and Aldo Sambrell, who once again plays a thuggish Mexican bandit. The locations are good, the score is OK, I especially liked Snake's theme, the only parts I didn't like about the soundtrack were the parts with the singing.

All said, "Silver Saddle" has its flaws, they should especially have left the little kid out and there is a lot of other unnecessary and silly cheese throughout the film, but apart from that it is an enertaining if disappoining Spaghetti Western, with a fair amount of action and violence in it. As a Spaghetti Western enthusiast I found it to be an enjoyable time-waster, fans of Giuliano Gemma should give it a try. Don't expect too much though.
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6/10
Fulci's disappointing final western
The_Void6 August 2008
Lucio Fulci will probably always be best known for his gory zombie movies; but he also directed some of the best films in the Giallo genre as well as a few other gems elsewhere. Fulci only directed three films in the popular Spaghetti Western genre; and I for one am thankful for that as it was clearly not his strong point. His first attempt at the genre, Massacre Time, was an above average western, if not especially brilliant. Four of the Apocalypse was well made but frankly dull, which brings us on to this film; which is more exciting (slightly) than Fulci's last effort, but too sappy for a western and too lacking in important areas. The plot is very typical for a Spaghetti Western and focuses on a man who, as a child, witnessed his father being killed. He grows up to become a bounty hunter going by the name of Silver Saddle and naturally he wants revenge and starts plotting once he finds the people behind his father's death. However, he ends up coming across the young son instead and after thwarting an assassination on the boy, sets off for his revenge.

The music is generally a very important element of the Spaghetti Western; and again it's a place where this one is seriously lacking. The score is, simply, horrible. What we get is a singer droning on about the plot of the movie and it will do nothing but make you cringe! Ennio Morricone, this isn't. The film seems all too keen to shy away from the stuff that usually makes this genre so great - namely, violence and action, and instead decides to put its focus on the relationship between the central bounty hunter character and his enemy's nephew; a young and irritating blonde haired kid. This relationship may be interesting for some; but personally I found it very boring and it wasn't what I went into this film looking for. There are a few action scenes but nothing particularly startling and the way the film moves is rather boring far too often. Prolific Spaghetti Western star Giuliano Gemma takes the lead role and is one of the film's few saving graces as he puts in a believable performance. The ending is rather decent too and wraps things up nicely; but this is not a great western unfortunately.
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Okay change of pace for Fulci
Wizard-825 December 2016
While Italian movie director Lucio Fulci is best known for his bloody horror movies, he actually did dabble in other genres in his career. He even made a few spaghetti westerns, "Silver Saddle" being one of them. Made when the spaghetti western genre was breathing its last breath, it's been all but forgotten today. To a degree I can understand this. It does have more than its share of dull spots, and Giuliano Gemma is only adequate in the lead role. But the movie all the same has enough interest to satisfy spaghetti western fans. Fulci throws in some interesting direction at times, such as with some particular camera movements as well as how he composes what's in front of the camera. Though there isn't enough action, what action there is in the movie does catch your attention, particularly with some very bloody squibs thrown in. Gemma's somewhat underwhelming performance is made up for by the presence of American actor Geoffrey Lewis, who is amusing without being overbearing. And the music is great; you'll be humming the title song for days after watching the movie. It's no classic, but it's a respectable final effort for a genre that was breathing its last.
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6/10
SILVER SADDLE (Lucio Fulci, 1978) **1/2
Bunuel197624 August 2006
The third and last of Fulci's Spaghetti Westerns (coming at the tail-end of the genre) - not up to the vintage MASSACRE TIME (1966) but preferable to the disappointing and unpleasant THE FOUR OF THE APOCALYPSE (1975) - with a distinct kiddie interest, since the violence isn't particularly graphic. In fact, even if star Giuliano Gemma (perhaps best known for two "Ringo" Westerns) is given the possibility of a couple of romances, the central relationship involves him and the young nephew of his sworn enemy!

As such, it emerges as unremarkable but surprisingly engaging, with a pleasant soundtrack and able support from Geoffrey Lewis (as Gemma's sidekick, a more likable version of the slimy bounty-hunters played by Strother Martin and L.Q. Jones in Sam Peckinpah's THE WILD BUNCH [1969]), Ettore Manni (as the chief villain) and Aldo Sambrell as a Mexican bandit-leader.
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6/10
An attractive and simple Lucio Fulci Western with thrills, emotion , crossfire and shot in Almería, Spain , as usual
ma-cortes14 October 2020
A light and strightforward Lucio Fulci western with neither much violence , nor sex but a plain story of a bounty hunter who protects a little boy , though there are shootouts enough . At the beginning a young boy sees how his dad is shot . Years later , once grown-up Roy Blood : Giuliano Gemma becomes a bounty hunter . When a kid is kidnapped , Roy along with the robber Snake : Geoffrey Lewis free the little boy and early Blood befriends him , developing an intimate relationship . When Roy is accused for killing and kidnap , he is wanted dead or alive , reward for 1000 dollars .Along the way Blood discovers dark secrets of the boy's family .

Thrilling Western with noisy action , fights , go riding , pursuits, shot'em up , and an enjoyable relationship beween a kid and a gunfighter . It is an acceptable Spaghetti unusual to Fulci career domineed by violent Westerns , bloody thrillers and especially gory horror movies . Here he makes an agreeable Pasta Western with brief intrigue , a kidnapping and a twist final . Stars regular stalwart Spaghetti Western : Giuliano Gemma who starred a lot of Italian oaters often under pseudonym Montgomery Wood , such as : A pistol for Ringo, The return of Ringo, Adiós Gringo , Arizona Colt , The price of power , Day of anger , California .Although also made other genres as Peplum , Thriller, Dramas , Wartime , and Terror in films as : The Titans, Il Gatopardo , Angélica, Tenebre , The master touch, Young Lions , Tenebre , among others . In the movie appears some familiar faces from Westerns and dramas as the American Geoffrey Lewis, Lucio Fulci made 4 Westerns all of them stattred by the Spaghett's greatest stars as "Massacre time" with George Hilton, Franco Nero , "Four of the Apocalypse" with Thomas Milian , Fabio Testi and "A bullet for Sandoval" co-directed by Julio Buchs with George Hilton , Ernest Borgnine , and all extremely violent and really bloody . However, this "Silver Saddle" or "Sella d'argento" is more a frienship story with a child than the ordinary crude and tough Western . Furthermore, being considered to be one of the last important Spaghetti Western in a long period that started with the films shot in Almería by Joaquín Romero Marchent , and bursting with Sergio Leone's Trilogy of the Dollars , following hundreds and hundred Pasta or Paella Westens from 1963 to 1978 approx.

The motion picture was well directed by Lucio Fulci who was a prolific writer and filmmaker . Directing all kinds of genres with penchant for terror as The Black Cat , Zombie 3 , Un gatto nel cervello, , Demonia , Manhattan Baby , New York Ripper , The house by the cemetery , City of the living dead , Aenigma, Murderock , The Wax Mask , and several others . This Western has a rating 6.5/10 , being acceptable and passable to see . Well worth watching . The flick will like to Lucio Fulci aficionados and Spaghetti Westerns fans .
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7/10
Fresh-feeling late-stage spaghetti western
Leofwine_draca21 December 2016
Warning: Spoilers
This fairly late entry to the western genre is fairly typical of its sort, kept lively thanks to some interesting characters and well-staged shoot-outs in the desert. The twisty-turny plot - almost episodic in nature - concerns the trials and tribulations of the bizarrely named Roy Blood, who began his life at 10 years old when he witnessed his father getting shot dead in cold blood by a crook. Picking up his father's fallen gun, he shot the man in the back and thus the legend of the "Silver Saddle" was born, a man who brings death and destruction wherever he goes.

Director Lucio Fulci (taking a break from his more usual horror fare) keeps the events pacy and invests the many shootings and murders with his trademark penchant for exaggerated violence, with bullets entering faces and chests, although don't expect any of the gory special effects he brought to the crime thriller CONTRABAND. He also keeps the eye close-ups and zooms to a bare minimum, although the film is not totally lacking in them. The fast-paced story concentrates on incident over dialogue, which is a plus, and also which makes it a very easy viewing experience.

The film's biggest flaw is probably the overly cheesy theme song which keeps on recurring throughout the movie, although it did make me burst into laughter every time it kept popping up. The shoot-outs are extended and well staged, throwing in imaginative props (like carbide bombs) into play along with lots of explosions and stunt work. Other unusual ingredients include a kite acting as a rescue beacon (!) and a monastery of monks getting slaughtered and hanged (what with this and CODENAME WILDGEESE, I'm beginning to think Italian directors have something against religious pillars of the community).

Another problem is with the film's lead, the wooden Giuliano Gemma, who bears an uncanny resemblance in profile to James Woods. Gemma isn't that bad, but he fails to make his leading character likable, so its hard to get enthused about his actions. To make up for this, we have a strong supporting cast including Ettore Manni as a baddie, the surprisingly likable Sven Valsecchi as the kidnapped kid who has a prominent part (despite looking annoyingly cute like the kids in Fulci's horror films, he's actually not a bad actor and sympathetic with it), and Cinzia Monreale as the damsel in distress.

On top of this, good ol' Dr Butcher himself, Donald O'Brien appears as a hired hand, while genre favourite Geoffrey Lewis puts in another excellent and charismatic turn as Two Strike Snake, an unlucky thief who enjoys picking the pockets of the dead. Lewis' strong turn is one of the film's highlights. Despite treading much the same ground as many other westerns, SILVER SADDLE is a fresh and entertaining movie with a plot complex enough to stay interesting yet without getting muddled, and one which I thoroughly enjoyed watching.
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6/10
Fulci in the West
BandSAboutMovies19 August 2020
Warning: Spoilers
Silver Saddle, also known as The Man in the Silver Saddle and They Died With Their Boots On, marks the end of an era in several ways. It's the last of three Westerns that Lucio Fulci would direct (the others are Massacre Time and The Four of the Apocalypse), as well as one of the last Italian Westerns of the so-called "Spaghetti Western" period. Only China 9, Liberty 37, La Ciudad Maldita and Zanna Bianca e il Grande Kid played theaters after.

NOTE: I challenge this fact, which was in the Silver Saddle Wikipedia entry, as you could consider Fulci's Zanna Bianca (White Fang) and Il Ritorno di Zanna Bianca (Challenge to White Fang) to be Western films, despite them not necessarily fitting the themes of the Italian version of the genre.

This is also the final western role for Giuliano Gemma, who broke out after acting in 1965's A Pistol for Ringo. Here, he plays Roy Blood, a bounty hunter eternally seeking the man who murdered his father.

Silver Saddle begins with the moment that put Roy on the trail of Richard Barrett, a landowner whose henchman kills the young boy's father. Barely a man, Roy picks up a gun, kills the man and takes his horse, silver saddle and all.

Decades later and he's grown into a fearsome killer himself, followed by an old man named Two-Strike Snake (Geoffrey Lewis) who tells the tale of Roy Blood while picking the pockets of the men he's shot along the way.

Blood takes a contract to kill a man named Barrett and discovers that instead, it is the young son of his enemy, who has died before he can get revenge. He saves Thomas Barrett Jr. from several other killers, but leaves the boy in the wilderness. However, he will soon learn that the son of his enemy will become the closest thing he will get to recapturing his lost childhood.

Speaking of all that change...

Fulci made this movie in between 1977's The Psychic, where he explored the giallo once more in the waning years of that cycle and 1979's Zombi 2, a movie which would take his career further than perhaps it had ever been before.

Gemma, who played Arizona Colt and the aforementioned Ringo, would appear in crime films, in Argento's late model giallo masterpiece Tenebre and even appear in a very late Italian western, 1985's comic book-inspired Tex and the Lord of the Deep.

Despite this being made at the very end of the "spaghetti" days, there are plenty of faces you'll recognize from these sun drenched films, like Ettore Manni (Johnny Oro, I Am Sartana Your Angel of Death and Django and Sartana Are Coming... It's the End), Aldo Sambrell (For a Few Dollars More), Lewis (My Name Is Nobody) and Donald O'Brien (Keoma).

Fulci would work with several of his regular collaborators, such as cinematographer Sergio Salvati, editor Ornella Micheli and composer Fabio Frizzi. It was written by Adriano Bolzoni (A Fistful of Dollars, Your Vice Is a Locked Room and Only I Have the Key, The Humanoid). and

And what of the future?

Cinzia Monreale had only been in a few movies before this. She would go on to be memorably cast as Emily in Fulci's The Beyond and in the dual roles of Anna and Elena in Joe D'Amato's Beyond the Darkness.

Licinia Lentini made this her first major film role and would also be part of a movie that would herald the short return of the Italian Western nearly a decade later, the finally authorized sequel Django Strikes Again.
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4/10
Disappointing Dud
Falconeer2 April 2017
Surprisingly lousy Western, especially considering that "Silver Saddle" comes from the creator of "Four of the Apocalypse" and "Massacre Time," which are two of the finest Italian Westerns of them all. This movie is a dud, dragged down by a lead who lacks the hardened charisma needed for a role of a lone cowboy bent on revenge and living off the rough terrain. Giuliano Gemma looks like he should be picking up gals, (or maybe even men) in some Euro disco, circa 1978. The fact that Gemma is wearing more make-up than a saloon hooker, doesn't make matters any better. Maybe in the days of grainy VHS tapes it could pass unnoticed, but that hi-def picture quality is unforgiving, and our hero is plainly wearing eyeliner and blue eye shadow and more foundation than a drag queen. But what really sinks the whole production is the music; there is this "theme song" that is so unbelievably sappy, corny and ridiculous, that I thought it must be some kind of joke. And the song is played again, and again...and AGAIN, throughout the movie. This fitfully dire song completely destroys a movie that wasn't any good to begin with. The story concerns a lame revenge plot; he sees his father killed in the beginning of the movie, grows up and seeks revenge. Original, huh?

After watching the amazing "Massacre Time," and thoroughly enjoying the intelligently written and realized "Four of the Apocalypse," I felt like I had to search our Lucio Fulci's less-known "Silver Saddle." Now I know why it's so obscure; it sucks..
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7/10
Gemma is Great! Apart from THAT coat!
PaulDVernon7 August 2019
An interesting film that shows Gemma at his best. Neat photography and some pleasant incidental music but an annoying main theme that repeats throughout! The kid is good and typical storyline, but gunfights are effective with realistic blood squid effects. One for Gemma fans for sure!
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5/10
Pretty tame standard spaghetti-western, but with a silver-saddle though...
KnatLouie1 April 2002
I bought this movie in the early 1990's, saw it once, and then it had been lying on the shelf more than 10 years (approximately). When I finally brushed off the dust and decided to see it again (remembering absolutely nothing about it), I wasn't as disappointed as I first thought I would be after just looking at the video-cover and reading the words: "This is a real Gun-man Western!" and thinking it would be filled with cliches and stupid dialogue. The beginning was actually the best part in the movie, and I thought that it should have ended just when the little boy rode off into the sunset after the shootout.

But no, they had to carry on for a whole hour after that!... in that hour, a romantic (meaningless of course) relationship occurs with Roy Blood and some woman (who actually looks quite pretty, I must say). Some bad guys suddenly appear from nowhere and of course feels like shooting it out with our hero Roy Blood (played by Giuliano Gemma). Geoffrey Lewis (who's the father of Juliette Lewis, and who has been in a whole bunch of Clint Eastwood-movies and other minor or major films) appears in a role as a sleazy guy called 'Snake' (I didn't even notice his name on the cast, because they had like 7 or 8 Italian no-names listed ahead of him!!), I thought he should have been at least the third-highest placed person on the cast overview list.

The movie made me laugh a couple of times, even though I don't think it was intentionally by the director, except the hilarious ending which blew my mind completely!.. It was a truly amazing scene, one that saved the entire movie in my opinion...

I give the first part of the movie 1/3 points (because I thought the daddy-killer looked like Johnny Cash, and he's cool), the middle section 2/4 points (because I was glad to see at least ONE familiar face in the movie [G. Lewis]), and the ending I give 2/3 (Well, you'll have to see it to believe it... even though some might think it is very ridiculous!)..

All in all, a pretty average western, with a hokey plot, but okay if you don't have anything better to do with your time.

5/10
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8/10
Good Gemma western from the late '70s
Cristi_Ciopron12 December 2007
Warning: Spoilers
I must confess, dear Gemma (presumably) fans, that I have never seen a bad or uninteresting Italian western; never. Many of them have certain noticeable deficiencies in the content's sector—yet, despite this poor content, they are well—made and likable. The one I have chosen here looks very low-budget; it has some qualities that make it very enjoyable, and a must for all Gemma fans. It shares with other similarly themed films the same desolate, barren landscape and notions of a dehumanized society.

To describe it in one word, Silver Saddle is a somewhat _cartoonish non—stop adventure western. Very compact and concise , while the content itself is quite average (the kidnapping and ransoming of a boy). (Allow me here a parenthesis, to mention that the western as a genre meant to me:--at first comics, in Romanian and French magazines;--then books, novels—Frânculescu, Reid,May and Cooper …;--in the third place, movies …. So I guess I especially enjoy this comic book look of the westerns.)

In a certain sense, I like Gemma more than Nero. He has, if I may say so, a more interesting presence . Sella d'Argento (1978) came one year after California (1977) (another good Gemma western),and two years after The Desert of the Tartars. It marks the end of Gemma's career as a western mythical actor—as well as that of the European westerns as such. These movies are still considered like something of a guilty pleasure—and still don't receive the esteem they deserve.

Sella … is a quite straightforward western, no-nonsense and violent; there is a scene of cruelty, when a kid is whipped by Garrincha. The tone is fortunately deprived of melodrama. Some of the characters are comic, or funny, or do comic things—Serpent (who is comic, but in a grim way) and the kid.

The silver saddle in this film is an item belonging to Roy Blood,a gunman played by the cult—actor Gemma.

The score that accompanies the suspense moments is very good; the song with English lyrics a la Keoma is less happily chosen.

At least six of the characters are noticeable—Roy Blood himself; his partner Serpent; Turner; Sheba; Margaret; and the kid."Creatures bizarre and grotesque, yet somehow always familiar"—as Nathan M. Powers once happily wrote about Lem's world of Ijon Tichy.

Like in many other Italian westerns, there is a strange, uncanny atmosphere.It is Lucio Fulci's film.
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5/10
An older kid's film that doesn't condescend...
dmacewen5 June 2008
...and which adults might enjoy, too. Fulci's best western was the imperfect but striking and alchemical "Four of the Apocalypse," which was alternately shocking and touching, and meandered along at an engaging pace, letting the viewer soak in the detail and peripheral touches. While this is not up to the standard of that film, I find Silver Saddle to be preferable to his conventional, by-the-numbers "Massacre Time" (which, for some strange reason, its director insisted on referring to as "oneiric," although there is nothing dreamlike about it). If you enjoy this film, you might want to check out "White Fang," also by Fulci.
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Last Spagetti western
fordbeebe29 June 2013
This 1978 release is generally considered as the last spaghetti western in the cycle commenced in 1964. The occasional entries from the eighties were simply a one off attempts to revive a genre which formally ended in 1978 but which had been in its death throes since the early seventies. This is a western for children directed by of all people Lucio Fulci with his trademark gore nowhere to be seen. Gemma who was always a heroic presence rather than an anti hero was perfectly cast for the film intended by the producers. The story has a young boy seeing his father murdered and murdering the Killer and taking his silver saddle.Growing up as a feared bounty hunter he saves the life and befriends the young nephew of the man he intends to kill for having commissioned his father's murder and from this point on the action and mild violence take a back sear to th relationship between Gemma , the kid his beautiful aunt and his partner a sympathetic crook excellently played by Geoffrey Lewis. A good but not exceptional score is aided by a catchy title theme in the De Angelis mold. Not a great film, maybe not even a great spaghetti western but very enjoyable from start to finish.
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Another flawed but interesting Fulci western.
Blaise_B25 May 2003
Like the same director's "Four of the Apocalypse," whether or not this film ultimately succeeds for you probably depends on your willingness to tolerate its flaws for its strengths.

Its flaws include bad acting on the parts of Giulliano Gemma and Sven Valsecchi, who are the two leads, a frustrating tendency to establish promising themes, only to allow them to dissipate after the first thirty minutes, and another frustrating tendency to put all the best action scenes in the first act.

Its strengths include the presence of Geoffrey Lewis, Aldo Sambrell, and Donald O'Brien, some excellent classic western action that's filmed with a modern sense of realism (read: BLOOD SQUIBS), and great photography, locations, costumes and sets that give an overall feeling similar to that of Fulci's other 70's western, mentioned above. The musical score, overall, is great and befits the feel and tone, although the hippy-dippy theme song may mar it for some.

For fans of Fulci and/or Italian westerns from the 70's, this is more than worth checking out...between this and "Four..." it's obvious the guy was up to something interesting and cool with his westerns during this time period, it's just too bad he didn't have a better sense of pacing and focus and evidently wasn't aware that you save your best tricks for the end of the movie, not the beginning.
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