The Sorrow and the Pity (1969)

Marcel Ophüls: Self, interviewer

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Quotes 

• Sir Anthony Eden, Churchill's Foreign Secretary : There are two things we still haven't fully understood today concerning the position of de Gaulle and the Free French. In England at that time, there were several foreign governments, but they were all governments, whereas de Gaulle and the Free French were not. All the other powers here in London had come with their government. The Dutch, the Belgians, the Norwegians. Their government in London was the same as the one at home. But this wasn't the case in France, as Pétain was still in power.

  Interviewer : Is that not the worst accusation of Pétain and the Vichy administration that one could possibly make? After all, France is the only country guilty of this.

  Sir Anthony Eden, Churchill's Foreign Secretary : Yes. Yes, that's true.

• Self - Aristocratic Former Nazi : Pétain, in a series of speeches, drew conclusions from this defeat. And he did so with skill. He could woo his audience. If one was to read the texts now, I haven't read them in years, but I bet if you read them now, you would be quite surprised.

  Interviewer : Yes, the texts relied heavily on the people's collective unconscious.

  Self - Aristocratic Former Nazi : Absolutely right.

  Interviewer : He blamed the parliament.

  Self - Aristocratic Former Nazi : Yes, the parliamentary system. To a certain extent, the employers were suspect, foreign...

  Interviewer : Cosmopolitan.

  Self - Aristocratic Former Nazi : Cosmopolitan, not to mention dark-skinned. And of course, he blamed the Communist Party. The Communist Party was the cause of all evils.

• Self - British Secret Agent : I was a transvestite singer in Paris in "Le Grand Ecart" for 3 months, and in "La Cave Caucasienne" for a long time.

  Interviewer : You did have an adventure during that time.

  Self - British Secret Agent : Yes. I did form a great friendship with a German officer. It started because I had no papers and I went to a nightclub where I met somebody I knew who introduced me to this man who was able to get me papers. But, this acquaintance turned to a great friendship, like all these friendships do, its a question of speed. And he invited me to stay with him. And I stayed with him for about four or five months, until I found that I was thinking that I was letting him down in this double-game business. And I was always afraid that if I should confess to him the truth, it would put him in an awkward position. So, I decided to...

  Interviewer : He didn't know you were English?

  Self - British Secret Agent : No. He thought I was Belgian.

• Interviewer : Tell me, when what were called "the Jewish decrees" came out, apparently you took out an ad.

  Marius Klein, Store Owner : Yes, that's correct.

  Interviewer : It was an ad in "Le Monieur."

  Marius Klein, Store Owner : You're certainly well-informed. You see, sir, we were four brothers. And this was the solution I found, as people thought we were Jews. My name, Klein, sounds quite Jewish. But I'm Catholic.

  Interviewer : Right.

  Marius Klein, Store Owner : And this was a real source of concern. I didn't know what to do. Four of my brothers fought the war. It was important that I tell people that I am really French.

  Interviewer : I see. In other words, you wanted your clients to know you weren't Jewish.

  Marius Klein, Store Owner : That is correct.

  Interviewer : Why?

  Marius Klein, Store Owner : Because some said I was Jewish. Jews were being arrested, and they said we were Jewish. Don't you see? I couldn't very well allow myself to be labelled as a Jew since I'm a Catholic. Do you understand? So that's why, as you said, I took out an ad. After all, four of my brothers fought in the war. One was killed. The other three were imprisoned.

  Interviewer : But Jews fought in the war too.

  Marius Klein, Store Owner : That's true. I realize that. Listen, I've never been a racist. Jewish or Mahometan, all that mattered to me was that the man did his duty, in which case he was as French as the rest of us.

• Interviewer : Of the non-naturalized Jews, the foreign Jews and denaturalized Jews, only 5% survived, the same average as in the other countries. So I am asking you if a statesman has the right, even if he is a Frenchman and a great patriot, to make such decisions concerning other human beings?

  Self - International Lawyer : It was a tragic and dramatic situation, in which one had to make the choice which would save the most human lives possible.

• Alexis Grave, Yronde farmer : You can't help but love your country.

  Interviewer : Did you think about it in Buchenwald?

  Alexis Grave, Yronde farmer : Not much.

  Interviewer : You didn't?

  Alexis Grave, Yronde farmer : No.

  Interviewer : What did you think about?

  Alexis Grave, Yronde farmer : Surviving. That's it. That's mainly what I thought about. But I'm talking about me, about how I saw things. I'm not talking about those who - there were some people who cried. When I saw them cry, I knew that they would never make it. No way. You had to think about yourself first. Ant think about others after.

• Marcel Verdier, Pharmacist : In 1939, I was 27 years old. I was the father of a large family, so I hadn't been sent to the front. The front was the Maginot Line. I'd been sent to Monferrand, near Clermont, and my wife's dairywoman, Mrs. Michel, had criticized me for not going to the front. So after the rout, I told her that there was no point in me going to the front, since the front came to me.

  Verdier Family Member : Is there anything other than courage in the Resistance?

  Marcel Verdier, Pharmacist : Of course. But the two emotions I experienced the most frequently were sorrow and pity.

• Self - Former Wehrmacht Captain : Our impressions? We saw destroyed villages, burnt lands. It did have a certain effect on us.

  Interviewer : And the people on the roads?

  Self - Former Wehrmacht Captain : They were fleeing the bad guys.

  Interviewer : What do you mean? Weren't you the bad guys?

  Self - Former Wehrmacht Captain : Yes. At first, we were seen as the enemy who was set to destroy the country. Then they began to see that we just wanted to help. And that reassured them.

• Interviewer : Are you what they call "a bourgeois" in a large provincial town?

  Marcel Verdier, Pharmacist : If being a bourgeois means eating properly, hunting in Sologne, having a hunting ground in Sanscion and in Sérye, and a son-in-law who owns Lake Montciniere, then I'm a bourgeois.

• Dr. Elmar Michel, Former Economic Advisor to German Military Command : I listened to my collaborators and said, "Why not?" And so the races started up again and continued until 1944. Thanks to us, the theaters were able to open their doors again. We often went to the theater, alone or with friends. The Germans also attended the races, which is how the different parties made contact quite spontaneously. Personal relationships developed between the different sides, probably for various reasons.

  Interviewer : I'm sure you're aware there has been a tendency in France since the war to deny that such contact ever existed.

  Dr. Elmar Michel, Former Economic Advisor to German Military Command : Yes, but it did exist.

• Self - Head of the Resistance Movement : The Park Hotel was occupied by Marshal Pétain and his staff. This is where I met up with my friend Colonel Gorosse-Tardou, who lived with Pétain. He was the chief of staff for his aviation department. Consequently, I was often at the Park Hotel. It was always busy, with lots of people milling around. Everyone kept their voices down and spied on their neighbors. Personally, I wasn't used to their system, but when I spoke, I followed everyone's example. They were forever shushing one another. Everyone was very suspicious.

  Interviewer : Of the enemy or of one another?

  Self - Head of the Resistance Movement : A bit of both.

• Interviewer : What was Paris like back then?

  Self - Aristocratic Former Nazi : There were two sides of Paris. There were those struggling to survive, and there was high society. All we were missing was Régine. There's no doubt about it. Everyone's ashamed to say it today, but for some, life in Paris was great. Maxim's and Le Boeuf sur le Toit did a booming business. French cinema was in top form.

• Mr. Dionnet, Teacher : People attended the raising of the colors reluctantly.

  Interviewer : Yet they still came?

  Mr. Dionnet, Teacher : They had no choice. It is in times like those when you begin to realize what people are really like. You know?

  Interviewer : How do you mean?

  Mr. Dionnet, Teacher : They were scared stiff.

• Self - Hotelier in Royat : One night, Mrs. Mioche, who was always harping on the subject, saw a soldier come in after midnight with two young ladies. Mrs. Mioche wouldn't let the girls in. As they continued insisting, she went and got their captain. The captain came down and said Mrs. Mioche was right.

  Interviewer : They must not have been very happy.

  Self - Hotelier in Royat : No. But what could they say? He was their captain, they had to obey. And Mrs. Mioche was happy with the outcome of the situation.

  Interviewer : So she was happy?

  Self - Hotelier in Royat : Yes, but she was still afraid that they would come in anyhow. She told them, "This isn't a..."

  Interviewer : A brothel.

  Self - Hotelier in Royat : And the the next day, they requisitioned the house across the street, hence solving their problem.

• Self - Former Wehrmacht Captain : As in always the case in war, when soldiers are far from home, brothels were set up. There were many in Clermont-Ferrand. The Clermont girls wouldn't give us the time of day on the streets.

  Interviewer : And when you weren't on the streets?

  Self - Former Wehrmacht Captain : It's true that they were much friendlier at night.

• Interviewer : People say that some peasants got rich during the war.

  Self - Resistance Fighter : There are some, that's for sure. Maybe it would have been better to get rich on the black market. Then I'd be rich and everyone would like me. But I was a resistant so they think I'm dumb.

• Interviewer : Do you think that having been in the Resistance gives you a good or bad reputation in the minds of others?

  Self - Resistance Fighter : I think it has always given us a bad reputation, because when we were active, they called us terrorists, yes, bandits. Many people still believe this.

  Alexis Grave, Resistance Fighter : Some even called us profiteers.

• Self - Aristocratic Former Nazi : As we were going to face the Russians, we met the exodus of refugees. It was worse than in 1940. All of Eastern Prussia and part of Pomerania were trying to take refuge in central Germany.

  Interviewer : What would they say to you?

  Self - Aristocratic Former Nazi : What would they say to us? They offered us their daughters. They preferred to give them to us, than see them raped by the Russians.

• Interviewer : Did you get along with the Germans? What did you call them?

  Self - Aristocratic Former Nazi : Boches. I don't know one single Frenchman from the Charlemagne Division who didn't call them Boches.

  Interviewer : So relations were hostile?

  Self - Aristocratic Former Nazi : Yes most of us called Hitler 'Big Julius'. That was typical of the French. They called him 'Big Julius'.

• Interviewer : When did you realize the reality of the German military?

  Self - Aristocratic Former Nazi : For me, reality lay in the officer schools of the Waffen S.S. It was brand new, and very unique. There was a mythology to it. It made us smile and, at the same time, we admired them. We, with our Latin background, discovered German mythology, oaths taken between chains, definitions like, 'My honor is called fidelity', and other things which fascinated us. Once a Frenchman, always a Frenchman, even when faced with such firm convictions. When the Germans realized this, they wouldn't take us seriously.

• Charles Braun, Restaurateur : At first we called them the Fritz, then the Jerries, the Krauts, the Boches, the Beetles and the Verdigris. Public imagination was very fertile back then.

  Interviewer : Why call them beetles?

  Charles Braun, Restaurateur : Because beetles eat potatoes and leave nothing behind. The Germans also left nothing behind.

  Interviewer : Not even potatoes?

  Charles Braun, Restaurateur : No potatoes.