Quick Millions (1931) User Reviews

"Racketeering's just getting what the other guy's got, in a nice way."

[wmorrow59 · 7/10 · 26 November 2006]

This film marked an early career milestone for Spencer Tracy. He'd scored a sensation on Broadway as a tough convict in "The Last Mile" in 1930, at the very moment when the Hollywood studios were desperate to recruit stage talent for the talkies. He appeared in a couple of Movietone shorts made in New York, then went to Hollywood for his feature debut in a hastily produced prison picture called Up the River. (Also in the cast was another up-and-coming stage performer, Humphrey Bogart.) But Quick Millions was Tracy's first starring role in a prestige project, Fox's high-profile entry in the hottest genre of the day, the gangster saga. The picture is built entirely around Tracy's character, Bugs Raymond, and the plot traces the rise-and-fall trajectory of his career in a fashion that was already becoming standard for crime kingpin stories.

Quick Millions is an interesting, well-written movie that offers some colorful supporting characters and several memorable scenes, but it's not hard to see why it was overshadowed by the other gangster movies of its day, the ones with flamboyant central characters and lots of shoot-outs. Spencer Tracy's Bugs Raymond is a smart racketeer who plans his moves carefully and gets his strong-arm guys to do the dirty work- - dirty work that generally takes place elsewhere, so he doesn't have to see it. As the man himself says: "I'm just a guy with a one-ton brain who's too nervous to steal and too lazy to work. I do other people's thinking for them and make them like it." He's no angry kid from the slums, no mad-dog killer with an antisocial streak; he's a cool customer who uses basic business practices, backed by the threat of violence, to get what he wants.

When the story begins Bugs is still a truck driver getting into foolish scrapes with the law. His girl nearly walks out on him, but when he tells her that he's been working out the "angles" to achieve material success we believe him, and before long he's taken over the trucking business and is forcing the city's respectable businessmen to kowtow to him. Some of his associates are irredeemable low-life hoodlums with no ethical standards at all, but Bugs makes it clear that there are limits to what he will and will not countenance. Raymond's new status brings him into contact with prominent civic leaders and their families, and he begins to clean up his act. He actually dons evening clothes and attends the opera. Unfortunately for him, however, the old gang doesn't take it well when "Mr. Raymond" puts on airs and aspires to class. Like many another gangland chieftain, Bugs' fatal mistake comes when he forgets where he came from and how he got to the top, and treats his partners in crime like they're poor relations he has come to find embarrassing. In the end he pays for this mistake in traditional gangland style.

For a gangster flick this movie is remarkably non-violent. There is an undercurrent of potential violence that charges several scenes, but when violent events are shown they are usually handled in an oblique, stylized way. (We know that Bugs Raymond strikes his girlfriend, but unlike Tom Powers in The Public Enemy he does so off-camera.) The focal point here is Bugs Raymond's perversely creative use of American business techniques, and the subsequent hubris that brings him down. It should be added, however, that the screenplay does not let Raymond off the hook: he's still a thug, and no better than any other racketeer, just a little smarter -- for awhile, anyway -- and less willing to get his hands dirty.

This is a film that deserves to be better known, and for fans of the genre it's a must, but first-time viewers should be aware that Quick Millions is more talky and cerebral than most gangster movies, and a little slow going at times. The dialog is generally sharp, but there are also scenes that could have been trimmed, and a couple of plot points that are never adequately explained. Bugs Raymond does not leave the indelible impression made by Edward G. Robinson's Rico Bandello in Little Caesar, Jimmy Cagney's Tom Powers, or Paul Muni's Tony Camonte in the 1932 version of Scarface. Still, this rarely shown movie is well worth seeing for a number of good scenes, a memorable finale, and a great party sequence where hit man George Raft performs a sinuous soft shoe dance to "St. Louis Blues" shortly before gunning a man down. That's worth the price of admission right there!

Better the second time around

[ROCKY-19 · 7/10 · 14 December 2006]

"Quick Millions" is a shadow of better gangster films made the same year (Public Enemy and Little Caesar) but for all its awkwardness it grows with the viewing and is better the second time around.

Aesthetically, it is not an important film and explores only familiar territory. Still, there are unexpected delicious moments. The studio seemed to be trying to make Spencer Tracy into James Cagney with this turn as a racketeer trying to class himself up.

In film history, "Quick Millions" is important. It was Tracy's first starring role, and he needed it badly. It's not a common character for him and yet his skills at underplaying are clear and marvelous. For George Raft, who looks totally GQ in his every scene, this film was the direct reason he landed a similar henchman role in the terrific "Scarface," which proved to be his breakthrough. It also got him his contract with Paramount. Despite a rough beginning, Tracy and Raft became good friends while filming "Quick Millions." It's an interesting aspect, almost an unconscious battle of screen chemistry. Just try to keep your eyes off Raft doing absolutely nothing in the background except shifting his weight while you're supposed to be paying attention to Tracy's important dialogue with other characters.

What works: Great lighting direction during the holdup at the "testimonial dinner." Focus on Raft's legs while dancing at a party, which initially seems to be just showing off his deft moves but in fact is leading up to the next time we see his legs in a brilliantly shot murder scene. Surprising musical interludes. Tracy incorrigible and so believable in carrying the film.

What does not work: Ham-fisted camera work - even in '31 cinematography was advanced beyond this clumsiness. Long-winded anti-racketeering speeches. While dialogue is often sharp, the storytelling leaves gaps.

And watch out for a flip of the bird.

The sum of the parts is greater than the whole here ...

[AlsExGal · 7/10 · 18 October 2015]

... that being because the players here, although characterized well in a gangster film that moves at a good pace, are all over the map as to the actions they take and their motivations.

The film opens with Bugs Raymond (Spencer Tracy), a truck driver, smashing another driver's fender over a spat that amounts to nothing at all, then jumping a cop over really nothing at all, and after being hauled in to court and fined, suddenly decides to become a gangster - a job that takes brains - after committing a series of stupid brainless stunts that his hot temper got him into in the first place.

Bugs starts small, going to gangster 'Nails' Markey (Warner Richmond) and offering to bring in revenue via a protective organization that gets cash from garages in return for smashing up cars parked nearby overnight, thus increasing their business. He soon has all the truckers in his back pocket - how this happens is never explained - and holds up the construction of a high rise building by Kenneth Stone (John Wray) if he doesn't pay up. Bugs has done his homework and knows Ken has all of his money in this project. Why is Bugs suddenly so smart when at the beginning of the film he would jump a cop in broad daylight? Bugs then muscles in and makes himself a partner to Ken's building concern, thus making himself legitimate, but although he has been telling EVERYBODY just how tough and unruly his "mugs" are, Bugs then gives them the high hat and tells them to get lost. What did Bugs think they were going to do, form an "out of work gangsters therapy group", meet Tuesdays and Thursdays, talk over their glory years and cry?

No, they get together with Nails, proclaim Bugs is out, and start doing seriously violent and obvious shakedowns and racketeering across the whole city, giving gangsters the publicity that Bugs wanted to avoid by breaking with them in the first place! And when a crusading radio reporter starts saying that the public should take action, what do they do? They kill the guy in obvious gangland style, which angers the public and public officials even more. What were they thinking? What does Bugs do? Nothing really, he is too busy being in love with Ken's sister Dorothy, whom he considers pure class. Now Ken is afraid of Bugs, and has told his sister to be nice to him, yet she is constantly patronizing him, and when he proposes, she tells him he is a parasite with a big smile on her face, completely unafraid and playing a grand piano. Bugs is the kind of guy who will beat up a cop, beats up his old girlfriend when she won't leave him alone, but does nothing about his former underlings who are in open rebellion or this insult from the girl of his dreams?

Well finally, Bugs gets mad, not because of the thousand cuts of Dorothy's insults, but because he is told to move aside by a society photographer whose object is Dorothy and her fiancé, back from South America. Bugs' solution? Take his underlings (who have actually been Nail's underlings for months), march into the church in broad daylight on Dorothy's wedding day and kidnap the bride! Not for ransom, but in a "Me Tarzan, You Jane" kind of way! What does he plan to do with her IF he gets her? Keep her in the basement? Well, don't worry because Nails and friends put an end to Bugs in the limo on the way to the wedding. Why didn't they do that months ago, that's how long they've NOT been his associates!

The reason I am spoiling this film completely is to show how many goofy left and right turns there are in this movie and the fact that the motivations and actions of the characters are constantly changing and make little sense - yet I really enjoyed it. I guess that is primarily because of Spencer Tracy, who after his first credited role as "The Hard Guy" spent the next four years playing "the hard guy" at Fox Films. The parts were often goofy people whose actions did not make sense, but it was fun watching the characters on their journey and Tracy honing his craft. Then there is George Raft as Jimmy, Bugs' best pal who seems to come out of nowhere. He is practically mute here, but just watching him move so confidently and gracefully - at one point doing one of his trademark dances - is as satisfying as watching Tracy act. The only bad thing I can say is Sally Eilers is pretty much wasted as Bugs' first girlfriend whom he discards on the way up, but is the only one to truly stay loyal to the end. I'd recommend this one if it comes your way.

Quickly established Tracy as a screen presence.

[kartrabo · 19 April 2000]

Joining the other major studios during the early thirties in producing hardhitting gangster melodramas, Fox rushed their newest contract star into his second film. In Quick Millions Spencer Tracy plays a truckdriver who is just a bit more clever than his comrades and desires the easy life.In short order he sets about organizing the other city truckers and eventually eases out the racketeers until he, himself, becomes the labor boss to be reckoned with. Along the way to success Tracy's character begins to undergo changes and his desires ever grander.Sally Eilers, his faithful girl is shunted aside for the favors of society beauty Marguerite Churchill; fellow racketeers and pals begin to suspect his ability to lead and of course numerous enemies are plotting his downfall.

The action of the film does not rely so much upon shocking rub-outs (the way Little Caesar and Scarface had the same year) but the gradual degeneration of Tracy's morality and relationships. The picture was successful enough to quickly establish Tracy as a strong screen presence and won plaudits for first-time director Rowland Brown. Warner Richmond is great as Tracy's nemesis as are George Raft and Bob Burns(not so lovable in this one). Watch for Ward Bond and Edgar Kennedy.

See this wonderful gem when you can but, remember like so many early Fox films before 1935, it's tough to find.

QUICK MILLIONS (Rowland Brown, 1931) ***

[Bunuel1976 · 7/10 · 10 March 2011]

Spencer Tracy is not readily linked with gangster pictures, yet he started off his career with a number of efforts in this vein: these included John Ford's UP THE RIVER (1930) and Michael Curtiz' 20,000 YEARS IN SING SING (1933); this film (which happens to be director Brown's debut) is another and certainly the most typical.

In fact, its narrative follows much the same path as those of 'rival' productions (notably Warners', who were to the form what Universal was to Horror) which sees the protagonist – a former truck driver – build a criminal empire but getting his come-uppance eventually, for attempting to climb one step too many along the society ladder (while pushing his devoted commoner girlfriend around)! Tracy's entry into the racket is depicted via a droll sequence where he systematically destroys a number of parked cars, so that he can then offer his protection to the affected business!

While less inclined towards showing off with his camera here than in Brown's two subsequent – and only other – movies, this still emerges as possibly his best work owing to Tracy's compelling portrayal (on the strength of which I have set out to acquire a number of his early and, by all accounts, minor vehicles) and another stalwart 'gangland' presence i.e. George Raft (in a supporting role, which goes from lackey to defector to victim while also incorporating a rare opportunity to showcase his dancing skills[!], he would refine in Howard Hawks' SCARFACE [1932] on his way to achieving personal stardom).

The film (accompanied on the TCM-sourced copy I acquired by forced French subtitles!) is a breezy 66 minutes long – though other sources give its official running-time at 72! – highlighted by smart dialogue and a handful of nicely-judged action sequences (the ending is particularly great). Pity that, reportedly due to his temper, Brown would get into hot water with Hollywood bigwigs and eventually forced to abandon his directorial career for good (a brief sojourn to Britain in order to make the 1934 version of THE SCARLET PIMPERNEL would similarly fall through and end up being handed to someone else!)

A harbinger of Jimmy Hoffa

[bkoganbing · 7/10 · 24 December 2013]

In his second film Spencer Tracy could have been typecast the rest of his career on the strength of his performance in Quick Millions. Fortunately for him he wasn't, but he's pretty nigh unforgettable here.

Long before Jimmy Hoffa came around, Spencer Tracy got the idea in this film that if truck drivers could be organized there was a lot of money to be made for the one who did it. With the support of girl Sally Eilers who wants a taste of the good life too in those Depression years, Tracy gets a whole lot of people under his thumb. As he shows what can one do without material being delivered. One can't sell produce or build buildings without the material at hand. Jimmy Hoffa would have liked the way Tracy's character Bugs Raymond thinks.

But Hoffa sure would not have liked the way Tracy obsesses over society girl Marguerite Churchill. She's the sister of John Wray from whom he extorted a partnership in the building trades via his truck union. That obsession is what leads to his downfall.

Quick Millions was also the second film for George Raft who plays Tracy's bodyguard and trigger man. Raft also does an occasional freelance job and that is what does him in as well. Raft would have to wait another year for his breakout role in support of Paul Muni in Scarface in a similar role as in Quick Millions.

One of the few gangster films of the era that specifically does not deal with Prohibition, Quick Millions is an early example of labor racketeering shown on film. And it's a great early work for Spencer Tracy.

Sort of like an exposee on Jimmy Hoffa...before he even began his career with the Teamsters.

[planktonrules · 8/10 · 5 July 2020]

Spencer Tracy stars as Bugs Raymond, a Jimmy Hoffa-like leader of a trucker's union*, just like the Teamsters. Using many illegal tactics (such as selling 'protection', thefts and violence), he rises to the head of the union and makes himself rich as a result. His right-hand man in all this is Jimmy (George Raft) and the pair live like kings after several years of racketeering. Much of it is because they have the goods of various public officials whose jobs SHOULD include putting thugs like Bugs and Jimmy in prison! Is there anyone to stop them or curb their abuses?

It's interesting to watch this film because of Tracy and Raft. Tracy is playing a jerk role--the sort he often played for Fox Studio but stopped making when he switched to MGM in the later 1930s. As for Raft, seeing and hearing him is interesting, as he simply doesn't SOUND like the George Raft you'll see in later movies. His voice is higher and less menacing....and he must have taken some classes on diction and voice following this movie.

So is it any good? Yes. And, it makes for a different sort of gangster film...which were all the rage in the early 1930s. It's gritty, extremely cynical and tough to stop watching. While not nearly as famous as "Little Caesar", "Public Enemy" or "Scarface", all from this same era, it's about as interesting to watch though a bit more subtle and believable.

By the way, at the 55 minute mark, pay CLOSE attention. A guy uses the middle finger...and it's NOT an accident! After all, it was made during the Pre-Code era...and giving the finger is certainly NOT something you'd see in Hollywood films for decades after July, 1934, when the new Production Code was enacted! For another single-digit salute, watch "Parachute Jumper"--where Frank McHugh does the same as he's trying to hitchhike.



*Although the film looks like an indictment of Hoffa and the Teamsters, Hoffa didn't even begin his career with the trucker's union until a year AFTER this film was made! It's almost like the film was written with a crystal ball!!

Big Seizures of the Public Enemy.

[mark.waltz · 5/10 · 29 March 2013]

Every studio in Hollywood jumped on board the gangster film paddy wagon after the success of "Little Caesar" and its even more successful follow-up, "The Public Enemy". Fox cast the then still fairly unknown Spencer Tracy in this creaky but well photographed retread of Warner Brother's smash hits. He's a former truck driver turned small time racketeer who strikes it big through the vandalism of automobiles to increase the business of a large garage lacking in clients. Now one of the biggest mob bosses of them all, he threatens construction businesses, gets involved in protection racketeering, and isn't afraid to utilize murder as a scare tactic. Another rising star, George Raft, has the supporting role of Tracy's sidekick (much like he did with Paul Muni in the later hit "Scarface") and gets to show off his dancing talents in one sequence.

However, the rest of the supporting cast is basically unmemorable with the exception of Sally Eilers as Tracy's bitchy moll. Marguerite Churchill, as the sister of one of Tracy's victims, is boring as the heroine. No matter how good Tracy is as an actor (and he still remains one of the best), he seems far too classy for this part, although he still sneers and barks orders with style. However, the script never really develops his character all that well, and the static formulaic structure never does anything but present episodes from this criminal's life rather than tell a great story. The ending, though, has a surprise twist that you won't see coming.

Lots of entertaining moments

[gbill-74877 · 8/10 · 21 August 2023]

"What difference does it make whether laws are made by a bunch of lawyers for other lawyers to break, or whether they're made by hoodlums for other hoodlums?"

Your enjoyment of this weaker entry in the pre-Code gangster film space may depend on whether lots of little things when taken together add up to an enjoyable experience. For me, let me be clear, the scene with George Raft in his first credited role dancing at 41:15 was well worth the price of admission, and there were enough other moments in its 72 minute runtime that I came away happy.

One of the things the film reflected, two years into the Depression, was the age's deep cynicism for American institutions, like the banking industry and justice system. Spencer Tracy plays the main gangster and is shown in a sympathetic light, voicing lines like the one I started this review with. We see the corruption in the powerful men of society, and hear a citizen express "Why last night at dinner by own daughter said to me, we have the best judges that money can buy. That, ladies and gentlemen, is the attitude of the younger generation..." There are also statements about millionaire racketeers avoiding income taxes by hiding their money, public money being wasted on putting people in jail, and a cynicism that extends even to the newsreels, with a producer in a truck remarking, "Gee Andy, the audiences certainly ought to be tickled to death they don't have to listen to all the baloney that I do," before literally giving the finger to what he hears about the completion of wealthy man's construction project.

Tracy's character shakes down a big businessman by forcing him to pay a percentage on a building project, otherwise the trucks won't run and the mayhem he's causing won't stop. It seems to me he was standing in for the little guys during the Depression, those wishing they could stick it to the businessmen who played a part in cratering the economy, and were viewed as just as corrupt as these crooks.

That aspect worked for me, but overall, Tracy's character is portrayed in too good a light. Let's just say, the "gangster with a heart of gold" should be considered as weak a trope as the one for hookers. Oh, there are scenes of his strong-arm tactics to rise in the world of organized crime, like him smashing up cars so their owners will start using the garage whose owner he's "protecting," and him blowing up a trucker who won't fall in line as he amasses a monopoly on trucking, but they're brief. Meanwhile he looks out for the kids in the neighborhood, and draws the line at keeping an incriminating letter from a judge's lover that comes his way, one he could use as blackmail. "It might get him in bad with his old lady," he says while tearing it up. What a guy, right? He's got a classy office, with modern art on the walls and a fancy phone, and despite a few tough words, generally acts the gentleman (and too much so for my taste). There was a fantastic moment when his ex-girlfriend (Sally Eilers) slapped him hard across the face, which is shown, but his reaction, which is to knock her to the floor, is not, softening the impact.

Tracy's actions are also shown as having positive benefits, e.g. Intimidating the foremen of the workers to have the steel girders in place on the building before a critical date when he says they might not make it. He's also far better than what we see out of his old buddy Nails (Warner Richmond) when the latter tries to take over the mob. He's got all the bases covered, running his various schemes, and says with a smile to a woman he's trying to woo, "Racketeering is just getting what the other guy's got, in a nice way." Gosh, perhaps Trump et al will use this line of defense.

George Raft as his right-hand man is also not menacing enough, though he has some nice moments aside from the stellar dancing bit, including the scene where he tries to pick up a secretary (Dixie Lee). "Say baby, what do you with your spare moments?" he asks. "I like to go to wrestling matches," she sarcastically replies, making 'wrestling' sound like 'wrassling.' After he commits a murder, he walks through a hotel lobby and looks like someone who's guilty but trying to be as casual as possible. You can certainly see why he got more parts, including of course Scarface the following year. It's pretty funny that the real-life gangster who may have played a role in getting Raft in this film, Owney Madden, is referenced in a horse racing tip (Owney M in the 5th race).

Despite the film being pre-Code, the moral forces of the community rise up, but this felt very much unforced, and like a natural reaction. It was refreshing that the daughter of the businessman (Marguerite Churchill) was a strong character, and stood up to the gangster, despite his overture of a $12,000 square-cut diamond ($241,000 in 2023 dollars). Still, the scenes they have together, like Tracy making a five-cushion finesse carom in billiards, or hitting a nice golf shot by pitching out of a sand trap while she looks on in her fetching golfing outfit, were enjoyable. I also loved that little folk song we get from one of Nails' gang near the end (I wish I knew who this was, or where the song came from):

"When I was a boy / I was the pride and joy / Of my folks way down in Arkansas / I left my old hometown / Bad company I found / I done some things that was against the law / There's one thing I've been taught / You're right until you're caught / As long as I'm free I'm gonna do just what I choose."

Quick Millions is quite mediocre.

[st-shot · 5/10 · 15 August 2023]

1931 was a bumper crop year featuring up and coming movie stars (Cagney, Robinson, Tracy) who would become legends doing gangster turns, followed in 32 by Paul Muni in Scarface. While Robinson and Cagney scored in in Little Caser and Public Enemy respectively, Spencer Tracy in Quick Millions proved he was more at home with virtue than vice.

Truck driver with a sense of ambition, Bugs Raymond (Tracy) organizes drivers with some muscle and is soon running a sweet protection racket across the city. Working his way up the food chain he garners respectability and a desire to marry the upper crust daughter (Sarah Churchill) of his extorted, legitimate partner. When she rejects him he hatches an absurd plan to whisk her away, giving his former mob pals an opportunity to exploit his power.

Tracy simply is not up to the iconic mobster performances delivered by the aforementioned actors getting their starts. Too measured in his rage he lacks the operatic pretense of Rico, the natural smart alecky ways of Cagney, the disturbing incestuous lunacy of Muni to be absorbing and put spark into the picture. Margurite Churchill as the love interest also does the picture no favors with a flat performance while Sally Eilers as Daisy and George Raft as a triggerman give plus performances.

Directed by the supposedly talented but temperamental Rowland Brown and lensed by underrated Joe August, Millions displays some moments of fine mise en scene, but in total this is lack luster Spence, an actor more at home on the side of decency than immorality. More adept at hearing confessions than giving them.

Spence dips out!

[JohnHowardReid · 8/10 · 7 January 2018]

Another super-famous but allegedly-hard-to-find film is Spencer Tracy's second movie, Quick Millions (1931). This also is a public domain title, so it's pleasing to report that Scooter have an 8/10 DVD with French sub-titles. And a fascinating film it is too, not just for Tracy's usual charismatic performance, but for someone who manages to steal all his scenes even when standing right in the background.

I refer to George Raft who, despite his seventh billing actually has a fairly large and most important role. You'll never forget two of George's scenes whereas I've half-forgotten most of Tracy's already.

Spence is also up against John Wray who wrote some great dialogue for himself, whereas Spense has to make do with what director Rowland Brown could improvise.

This movie was writer Brown's first film as a director. He followed with Hell's Highway (1932), Blood Money (1933), but was fired from the 1936 The Devil Is a Sissy. However, he continued to write a few screen stories like Angels with Dirty Faces (1938), plus the screenplay for Henry Hathaway's Johnny Apollo (1940) starring Tyrone Power.

Another 1931 Gangster Movie

[view_and_review · 5/10 · 17 August 2022]

With the help of IMDb I can see my ratings of movies grouped by year as well as an average for the given year. So far 1931 is coming up the rear averaging 5.39 for the 28 movies I've seen from that year. "Quick Millions" isn't going to help that average any.

"Quick Millions" is another gangster movie from 1931. Add it to the list including "Public Enemy," "Little Caesar," and "Smart Money." Every gangster movie is about a rise from nothing to prominence and then an unceremonious end.

Daniel J. 'Bugs' Raymond (Spencer Tracy) was the featured hoodlum in this movie. He began as a lowly truck driver and with "a little bit of nerve" he found a way to use his trucking as a means of extortion. He then kept climbing the gangster ladder until he was able to shakedown millionaires.

The movie was too poorly edited to really enjoy. It jumped from scene to scene too abruptly and it would jump into what could be considered the middle of the next scene. Scenes need context provided by dialogue or imagery that gives the viewer the necessary information to know what's going on and why. Things were happening so fast that I didn't know what was happening, I just knew that Bugs was moving up in the world.

Free on YouTube.

Quick Brown

[searchanddestroy-1 · 4 February 2024]

Roland Brown the director was a hell of a guy. He had ties with the underworld, was a boxing sparring partner for Jack Dempsey, he knocked down a producer.... So, he was not the common bland film maker. This one is his first film, the first of a short list of features. It is a light hearted crime drama, but not a comedy. Not a pure gangster film either. However I was so surprised to see Spencer Tracy co starring George Raft, one year before SCARFACE. Spencer Tracy in a role not so far from Sylvester Stallone in F. I. S. T, a bleak character. But I would have prefered a grittier movie. I expected a bit more from Rowland Brown, maybe because of his reputation, hard boiled reputation.